No old cameras allowed I guess...

Richard S. (rich815)

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So here I am right now at my 13 year old son's swim meet in suburbia Northern California. It's warm up time. Beautiful misty/steamy fog coming up off the pool as all the swimmers are practicing and warming up in this 40F weather. The rising sun is making for some neat photos through the mist as I use my Rolleflex 2.8E Planar camera loaded with Tri-X. Already a few comments of "oh wow! What a neat camera!" and "I have not seen one of those in years, my dad used to have one". Typical. But nice folks.

Around me 5 or 6 people taking photos with their smart phones. An official/marshal just came up to me and told me no cameras allowed. I looked at him surprised and then politely but sort of firmly pointed to the smart phone shooters. His reply: "I was told no cameras, sorry, put it away." So I did. Don't want to make a scene or trouble. The smart phone shooters continue without harassment......sigh.....oh well.
 
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Thomas Bertilsson

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That policy is such a relic... Terrible. Everybody has a camera with them today, all the time.
 
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Richard S. (rich815)

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Yup. Agree with you both. But not looking to make a stink. I'm a volunteer timer also so I got other things to do. There's like 10 teams here, it's all families and kids. I got off at least one roll anyway. Funny thing is I checked out the Meet Sheet and there's rules about other things like smoking, alcohol, firearms, glass containers but nothing anywhere about cameras or photography. I'll try to find the main officials booth later and speak to someone to get clarification.
 

summicron1

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should have held the Rollei up to your ear, raised a finger (not that one!) at the guy to silence him, and said "Hello?" into the lens.

Camera? What camera?

 

removed account4

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SNIP SNIP SNIP

at least you got recognized as a photographer
the marshal probably knew the real deal when he saw it ...

i've been to events where real cameras aren't allowed too
but everyone is imaging and recording a dv of the whole event
with their phone ... and i have been to others where
people with cellphones were told to put their phones away .

too bad you can't contact the someone, who put on the event, and ask why there was such a discrepancy ...
 
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Richard S. (rich815)

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summicron1 said:
should have held the Rollei up to your ear, raised a finger (not that one!) at the guy to silence him, and said "Hello?" into the lens.

Camera? What camera?

Click to expand...

Hahaha! I should have!
 

R.Gould

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Ah well, your catching up with many places this side of the pond, in many places, where kiddies are involved in sports or school actitivities no photography of any sort is allowed, no cameras, no video and no mobile (or as you know them cell) phones are allowed, some places ban anyone from even taking them in, and if your are seen using one it is Confiscated by what we call over here the ''Jobs Worth'' and you get them back when you leave, I suppose it is the times we live in.
 
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Richard S. (rich815)

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Here's a quick shot from my "allowed" smart phone to give you a sense of the really cool lighting earlier. As mentioned I did fire off 12 exposures of Tri-X in the Rollei before I got as asked to cease.
 
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winger

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Since you have other duties as well, I'd ask an official when there isn't a meet going on. I wouldn't even be surprised if the person who told you to stop didn't really know the rules to start with. But point out that they need to either ban photography or allow it, not some half-arsed rule about no cameras when every phone has one.
And that light looks really cool - definitely worth some shots.
 

Sirius Glass

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MartinCrabtree said:
Follow up. Make them ban all or none. Don't tell me I can't do anything. Concession is defeat.
Click to expand...

I agree. Challenging them will make them realize that they have to deal with a logical fallacy or a possible expensive law suit.
 

snapguy

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pee time

Yes, let's all of us pee our liberties away. Too much bother. Anything you say, Adolph. Right on, Hitler. As Thomas Jefferson said, "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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fotch

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How about "OK, if you can show me the rule, and if it applies to everyone with a camera, including phone camera combinations, there would be no reasons that I would not do what you asked"
 

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One of the local parks where I walk recently put up a large sign. It is probably 8 feet high and 6 feet wide, one side in English the other side in Spanish. It lists dozens and dozens of rules in small print. As if everyone is supposed to stand there for 10 minutes and read about all the hundreds of things that are disallowed. I was thinking of making a pinhole photo of it: the pinhole perspective will make it loom large among the oak trees and grassland.... Now I'm going to do it.

 

eddie

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Put one of these on your phone, and tell them the thicker one is just an earlier version:
Dead Link Removed
 

wiltw

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You could threaten to file a lawsuit for DISCRIMINATION against you...you have an inability to take photos of your son, while other parents happily shoot away.
You could threaten that others are free to take suggestive photos of your son, while their children are protected from your lens.

Sounds like time to consult the ACLU (much as I dislike a lot of things they represent) about your civil liberties!
 

Nick Merritt

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Definitely get clarification -- but unlike some of the suggestions above, I'd handle it quietly, away from the meet. After all, you know these people and are involved yourself as a volunteer. If the issue is privacy, then definitely everyone's cell phones are fair game -- they're a lot more able to share pictures immediately than you are with your TLR. So you'll need to work out some sort of accommodation, which may require you polling the other parents and asking them if they have any problem with your taking pictures. (I can't believe they would, considering they're doing the same thing.)

If it's because you look like you're a pro, and the assumption is you're going to sell the pictures, I can see why they might want to see your credentials. But I bet it's the former.
 

MattKing

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If the rule against all photography has actually been considered and approved by the group as a whole, then I would respect it and just ask that it be applied equally, to all.

Or alternatively, ask that it be re-considered, and be willing to abide by the result.

Private groups should be able to make rules like this. And people should be able to use persuasion to bring about changes to those rules.

Rules like this don't exclude participation in the activities that the group is engaged in.

If the members of the group don't want photographs, then why would one insist on taking them?

There is no public or societal interest in forcing people to accept being photographed here, whether they want to or not.

Some of the earlier posters suggest threatening a lawsuit. That would be a sure way of alienating oneself from the group, and most likely removing oneself from the enjoyment one gains from the group.

The OP's example photograph shows what he is interested in photographing. I would suggest that he use it to help convince others to change the rules.
 

wiltw

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MattKing said:
Some of the earlier posters suggest threatening a lawsuit. That would be a sure way of alienating oneself from the group, and most likely removing oneself from the enjoyment one gains from the group..
Click to expand...

Merely a dramatic way of drawing attention to the total inequality of the enforcement of their current rule...sometimes they need someone to open their eyes to their actions! The spectre of possible bad publicity is as powerful a motivator to action. The figurative shot acrossed the bow.

Do you thing that milqtoast actions prompted civil rights equality legislation, women's suffrage' or even the current outcry for better response for injuries incurred while on active duty were prompted by laissez faire attitudes by those not being served?
 
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gone

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That stinks. It reminds me of the time at the mall when one of the wanna be cops, otherwise known as mall security, singled me out because I had my camera on a strap, like always. He came up and pointed out that there was no photography at the mall. I asked him "Did you see me take any pictures?" After a bit I finally got sick of him, and told him that if he didn't leave me alone I was going to sue him and the mall. The deal is no pictures, not no cameras. I also told him "look around you you, idiot. There are people w/ cell phones everywhere. They all take photos. Are you going up to them and telling them they can't take pictures? Why are you singling me out? There are probably people in the food court right here and now that are on their computers and sending a live feed out as we speak. Go bother them!". He finally left.

I absolutely agree that you have to get back in these people's faces. But make sure you know the rules where you are. If you're right, stick to it. This sort of thing is worse here in Florida, which is a defacto police state, and there is always someone with imagined police powers pointing out what people can and cannot do. I certainly could have been arrested, knowing the cops down here. I was calling the guard's bluff, but just in case, always carry a digital pocket voice recorder to record these sort of confrontations. When you whip one of those things out, people tend to clam up, pronto.

I like the ACLU and applaud everything they do. Great organization, and yes, this was discrimination. But filming and voice recording these sort of confrontations has always worked for me. By the way, small claims court can handle these sorts of things, and you don't have to hire an expensive attorney. You can do it all yourself, and the burden of proof in a civil suit is much less than in a criminal case.
 
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Old-N-Feeble

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The only way discrimination could come into this is if the OP was the only one of a particular ethnicity or religious group who was asked asked to stop. And, given the circumstances, even if that was the case, it would be extremely difficult to prove. There is no legal definition of discrimination against analog vs. digital cameras nor regarding those who use one or the other. This is a clear case of shear ignorance that can easily be cleared up. Most likely, folks will be required to leave their cell phones at the desk. If the OP really wants to photograph his son's swimming meets then he should just keep his mouth shut and bring his cell phone next time.
 
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MattKing

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For clarity, I took the OP's situation as being one where he is working, as a volunteer, with a group of like minded volunteers who are seeking to enjoy, as a group, a fun opportunity for themselves and their kids.

Something that a bunch of people get together to do for shared fun.

"Shots across the bow" are probably the best way to drain all the enjoyment from an activity like that.

In a different environment, I too would support a principled but potentially adversarial approach.
 
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