No notch codes on 8x10 EFKE 25!

I purchased a 50 sheet box of efke 25 in October from Freestyle photo here in L.A. Everything was fine until i got halfway through the box while on a recent trip to Michigan. Not every sheet has a notch! I didn't load any of those sheets since i couldn't tell which side was the emulsion side. I could have trusted the packaging and just loaded it but not when i'd traveled over 2000 miles. I took the sheets in but Freestyle refused to help me since it's been over 30 days from the sale. Does anyone have contact info for efke-fotokemika? Anyone else bought sheets w/o notches?

vinny

wildbill said:

I took the sheets in but Freestyle refused to help me since it's been over 30 days from the sale.

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This bit disturbs me. I would have expected better from Freestyle...and frankly, I'd have gotten better from them or ruined someone's day. That's not a reasonable application of such a policy. I can do the "squeaky wheel" thing exceptionally well, when necessary. The fact that you can and have shared this with a significant number of their current and potential customers is not insignificant.

I now know that Freestyle has a policy that discourages me from purchacing products that I won't begin using within 30 days. How does this help them?

hi vinny

i have a whole bunch of 5x7 tri x that had the same problem -
most of a 100 sheets box with no notch codes.

from what i understand, it was either cut on a monday or a friday

Efke/Fotokemika contact information

This us another thread regarding the Fotokemika contact information:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
I also would try to contact Mirko Boeddecker from http://www.fotoimpex.de in Germany as the owner of the label "ADOX" and the Fotokemika factory in Zagreb, Croatia. Just post your question on the Fotoimpex English forum http://www.fotolaborforum.eu/index.php?showforum=3. Hi is watching it closely.

Happened to me on JandC 400...ok, waste a sheet and then notch the cardboard protector so you know which side is emulsion....not a big deal....you can also feel which side has emulsion and which side doesn't...kind of...

Efke address

This is practically the only information I have got about the company itself. Gotb this from an East-European photo site. I do NOT know whether this address is correct!

Efke Fotokemika
Zagreb, Hondlova
Hrvatska 02-55
41001 Zagreb, CROATIA
tel: 011-385-41-231-833
Fax: 011-385-41-232-653

I luckily never encountered such a problem. But how to distinguish film sides in the dark on a sheet film which has got a backing layer?

I encountered this before. I trusted the packaging and that each sheet's emulsion was oriented the same...it has not failed to be true.

Efke fotokemika correct address

The correct address of factory and commercial will be:

Fotokemika
10430 Samobor Hrvatska
Nikole Subica Zrinskog 14, P.P.6

I visit them 14 days ago. I bought there IR 820.

I will go there next month, and if I can help anyone do send P.M.

Dear Rombo,

the Efke company is still (wants to be?) mysterious.
Well the people at Apug know what they produce, how and under which names it is marketed. For the rest... There are even different addresses spread (head office vs plant?).
At an other thread there have just been informations passed over Svema and Tasma.

Could you tell something about Efke which is not originating from their dealers and could interested people here?

wildbill said:

I took the sheets in but Freestyle refused to help me since it's been over 30 days from the sale.

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Very unusual for Freestyle. They once offered to replace some defective paper for me more than a year after purchase.

Are we to take this to mean that we are expected to open every box of film and inspect every sheet after purchasing it from Freestyle? Impractical! I typically buy 3-4 boxes at a time, and sometimes it's months before they are actually opened. And even then, I don't inspect every sheet.

I've always had high regard for Freestyle, but if this is an indication of how they intend to do business in the future, I may have to rethink my selection of suppliers.

AgX said:

the Efke company is still (wants to be?) mysterious.
Well the people at Apug know what they produce, how and under which names it is marketed. For the rest... There are even different addresses spread (head office vs plant?).
At an other thread there have just been informations passed over Svema and Tasma.

Could you tell something about Efke which is not originating from their dealers and could interested people here?

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I'm not Rombo, but I'm in Croatia, and have frequent contacts with Fotokemika - although I must confess I never once visited their factory.
I should do that soon, and post some photos...

I think I should make one thing clear - Fotokemika is not some shady company, engaging in "mysterious" business practices or spreading misinformation...

People at Fotokemika are simply not very technologically "advanced" - meaning no disrespect - it's just that they don't monitor Apug or any other Internet forum

Their disregard for Internet even goes so far that they even don't care who and where uses their name - which is why you have different web sites with "fotokemika" or "efke" in their name, all of which have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Fotokemika. Some of those are actually web sites of their foreign distributors, some are sites put up by enthusiasts, etc. They (Fotokemika) don't really care....

To put it clear: Fotokemika does not have ANY kind of Internet presence - no Web site, nothing. They do use e-mail, however

As for the "mystery" about their whereabouts, there are many of those "amateurish" sites which list old information about them.

A few years back, Fotokemika underwent a restructuring process, they were under bankruptcy proceedings, and they got a new owner (majority shareholder) a few years back. Some of their property (the former factory and store in Hondlova street in Zagreb) was sold, and the whole plant was moved to Samobor, a nice little town near Zagreb.

The "old" Fotokemika went bankrupt, and the new company is actually called "Fotokemika Nova". It's still the same people, and the same products like always. So, noting to get upset about. It all happened a few years back, and it's all old news.

They had some rough times, but it seems like they are now operating a healthy business, and I dont fear for them

The demise of Agfa and Kodak B&W products actually brought them more business, and I guess something like 95% or even more of their products are exported through various dealers (Fotoimpex in Germany and Freestyle in the USA, AFAIK).
What those dealers do on their markets and how they market or brand Fotokemika's products is actually not of great concern to Fotokemika.... as long as they sell their products.

Fotokemika is a small factory, and they do what they always did - they make films and papers. With the market changes in the last decade (and the restructuring and moving to Samobor), they saw a rapid and significant decline in demand for their products on the domestic market. Not to mention that, like many other companies in the former Yugoslavia, thir market shrunk significantly when Yugoslavia fell apart in a bloody war....

But, as it turns out, their small size and outdated equipment turned out to be an asset under these new circumstances - they are the only company which can make small product runs profitably... Think Ilford and recent ULF order.... As Simon Galley announced here recently, they (Ilford) will be doing ULF runs only once a year...
It's difficult for "big players" to make smaller product runs profitably.

Don't get me wrong - I do not work for Fotokemika, I have absolutely no personal interest here - it just happens that I live in Croatia, speak reasonably good English, and happen to know what they (Fotokemika) do, since I frequently order film and papers from them. I also tell them from time to time what goes on here

So, if there's anything else you'd like to know about Fotokemika, feel free to ask - and I'll help if I can.

Now, if any of the Fotokemika's distributors who read this deem these rambling of mine inappropriate, out of place, or interfering with their business and/or marketing, I'll simply shut my trap
I really don't mean to step on anyone's toes, and hurting anyone's busines sis the last thing on my mind.

It's simply that I often read all kinds of wild speculations about Fotokemika...

I simply like their products, and just wish them to survive... If they don't you'll be amazed how narrowed your choices in film photography would be... Well, mine would, that's for sure!

Denis

Please check your film again. I have had this happen numerous times with the 810 Efke, and it is simply a matter of half the box being packed in a different direction -- upside down and backwards. Sometimes it's as simple as that, and other times it's not as easy as half being one way, half being the other, but it does turn out to be all notched.
Hopefully yours is too.

Jeanne said:

Please check your film again. I have had this happen numerous times with the 810 Efke, and it is simply a matter of half the box being packed in a different direction -- upside down and backwards. Sometimes it's as simple as that, and other times it's not as easy as half being one way, half being the other, but it does turn out to be all notched.
Hopefully yours is too.

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As i said in my first post, i took the sheets to Freestyle for them to see. Definitely no notches.

Thanks for the contact info from those who've posted.

vinny

Many Thanks, Denis !!

I appreciate your information very much.

In case there should be a misunderstanding: I never considered Efke to employ `mysterious business practices´, but rather a retracted way of doing their business, which makes them mysterious, or enigmatic if one prefers that word. And I did not mean they spread different addresses, I rather was referring to us posters. Sorry, but I did not realize that I could be misinterpreted. Luckily, to my consideration, this site is not left thoroughly to native speakers from the English speaking world, but there are some other people like me. Though, with the effect as above…
Well, back to Efke, I thought myself that it could be they rather directed their limited forces to what they know best, film-manufacturing, instead of doing PR. (By the way, I neither found any original Efke websites, nor those fake ones you mentioned. (This tells something about the web, or me…)

I am curious about those photos.

bye

I also would try to contact Mirko Boeddecker from http://www.fotoimpex.de in Germany as the owner of the label "ADOX" and the Fotokemika factory in Zagreb, Croatia.

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:confused:
No! Mirko B.is not the owner from Fotokemika factory, he's just ONE of their customers .
Fotokemika produces some curious modified versions from their standard line for Adox . Adox CHS emulsion is stronger than efke but has a lower speed .

Dear Hervé,

I guess you misunderstood the poster you are quoting:
The intention of that message was most probably to contact Mr. Boeddecker, the owner of the Adox brand name (you can verify that at the German brand name registry) as well as Fotokemika.

wildbill said:

As i said in my first post, i took the sheets to Freestyle for them to see. Definitely no notches.

Thanks for the contact info from those who've posted.

vinny

Click to expand...

Well, if you're really intent on contacting Fotokemika directly, here's what you'll need:

FOTOKEMIKA - NOVA d.o.o.
N. Š. Zrinskog 14
10430 Samobor
Croatia
Phone: +385 1 336 11 33
Fax: +385 1 336 29 61
E-mail: fotokemika@zg.htnet.hr

That info is valid and up to date...

I still think you should try to get the problem resolved with the distributor.
Things like these (no notches) happen from time to time, even to "big players" (Kodak, etc.), as some have confirmed in this thread. I'm sorry it happened to you, but I still don't see how contacting Fotokemika could help you. They will probably admit that such things happen, and will probably take your word that it happened to you. But, I still don't think you have any legal recourse with Fotokemika (i.e. you can't really expect them to ship you a replacement box of 8x10 film directly from Croatia).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you buy a defective Lexus from a local dealer in the USA, you can't ask Toyota in Japan to ship you a new car from Japan at their cost... That's why they have a local dealer, who has to sort it out with them.

I happen to translate a lot of legal stuff, warranties among other things. Most of manufacturers specifically state in their warranties that, for a product under warranty which requires service (broken, defective, etc.), you need to return the product to the place of purchase, providing a valid proof of purchase. Note the words "place of purchase". Also, the warranty period is always precisely defined. In your case, it was 30 days. Basically, Freestyle is not to blame here, since the stated warranty period has expired.

If you think that's not fair, take a look at the warranties and other legal provisions that come in the box of any software product, and ask yourself how does anyone put up with THAT nonsense...

As for the practical side of the problem, Donald Miller and Scott Peters provided a valid solution (which Fotokemika confirmed to me this morning) - all the sheets in the package are oriented the same way. You can sacrifice one sheet to find the emulsion side, and then notch the cardboard "protectors" in the package. You don't even have to sacrifice a sheet - the emulsion side can be "felt" - it has somewhat different texture.

BTW, regarding the company itself, for those interested - this comes straight from the horse's mouth (I just phoned Fotokemika) - Fotokemika is about to launch their own site in about a month or so - with essential info about the company, history, products, etc...

Denis

I have this matte Agfa paper, outdated , and even under darkroom light, it's hard to judge which side is the emulsion side, so what I do is that I wet my finger slightly, and feel the surface: the emulsion side beeing sticky, the RC site beeing smooth (..I tell you a little secret: I actually touch the paper with the very tip of my tongue, the taste will immediatly tell which site is the emulsion site..;-)..)


Anyway, perhaps you could carefully try this technique on the very edge of a sheet?

best,

Cor

Dear Denis,

-) Some customers, me included, prefer to communicate quality problems etc. (also) with the manufacturer. Whether this makes sense, is another issue.

-) There is no hint that Freestyle won’t refund those sheet films.

Thus we are getting academic now:

-) Liability
The liability depends on the legislation of the country where the seller resides. (Here in Germany even the producer of an item could be liable in case he resides here too.)

-) Warranty
To my understanding in the case of photographic materials, where the manufacturer gives an expiring date, this means that he warrants for that material to keep his properties according to the datasheets etc. until then. (On the basis that the buyer stored it at least according to the advice of the manufacturer.)
In the case of missing notches there is not even the problem of storage and one should expect to be refunded over the whole period.
Of course as on all legal matter there is room for discussion.


That coming website of Efke will surely be appreciated. (Even if it says, “Please don’t contact us, but rather let all communication run through the dealer.”)

bye from Germany (where, I guess, customers are never satisfied…)

Fotokemika

Well, I think that evrything is clear now, only these photos should be at the end.

Fotokemika pictures

Ha! Now You can see that I really do not want (can not) to use d*gital and this modern stuff. Pictures are slightly turned to the right.
Pictures are scans from home developed slide film in 3B E6.

Can anyone turn those pictures, please?

AFAIK, this is not the first time I have heard this particular complaint about EFKE film.

PE