No more AS-IS at KEH

BrianShaw · Feb 24, 2012

I don't think he was writing about you, Roger. He seems to be commenting on people who buy used gear with the absolute expectation that it is in new and fully functioning condition no matter what condition it was described as... and then complain publically like they've been unreasonably or unfairly wronged.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2012

BrianShaw said:
I don't think he was writing about you, Roger. He seems to be commenting on people who buy used gear with the absolute expectation that it is in new and fully functioning condition no matter what condition it was described as... and then complain publically like they've been unreasonably or unfairly wronged.

I know he's not talking about me personally. But what he said doesn't mesh with your interpretation.

You're buying used gear because you're too damned cheap to buy new gear.

He didn't say "you're buying UG and As-Is gear because you're too damned cheap to buy EX or LN gear."

With the exception of the poster upset that they wouldn't credit him back $2 for something that was shipped to Europe, I don't really see that. Most people who have bought UG or As-Is seem to be mostly happy and upset the As-Is might be going away, and those who have gotten truly ugly or parts only stuff have shrugged it off saying, basically, "I rolled those dice and they didn't come up for me this time."

I have my own, admittedly minor, beef with KEH (I still buy from them, and will again.) When I bought my LX, since I'm in the Atlanta area I asked about just going over to pick it up. They said I could but there would be a $5 fee for, I forget what they called it but essentially a "someone goes and gets what you want and brings it to the counter" fee. Some sort of pick up fee I think it was called. Well, I live in the area but on the opposite side of the metro. It's an hour drive over there, each way. By the time I paid for gas even for my car that gets 30-34 mpg, both ways, and this stupid $5 junk fee, it was cheaper to just ship it FedEx. And for that matter, considering I'd have had to wait a couple of days to get over there to get it, it was just as quick too. I was just trying to save the shipping.

I mean, really, you're going to charge me $5 to go get what I've already told you I'm buying? When you DON'T charge me that to box it up and ship it FedEx? Well I'm sure they do - it's built into their shipping and handling costs, most likely, so it's just a way of adding the same handling charge.

BrianShaw · Feb 24, 2012

sigh.

I didn't read it quite as literally as you did.

BrianShaw · Feb 24, 2012

p.s. I hate junk fees too. They are stupid, greedy and disrespectful of customers.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2012

BrianShaw said:
sigh.

I didn't read it quite as literally as you did.

Apparently I am, according to my fiance anyway, a very literal person. She finds it amusing. I shrug. I don't know any other way to be than to assume that people mean what they say, or write, and not some other meaning I should have to guess at. I do usually recognize overt sarcasm, irony (or just plain smart assedness) and so on, but absent that, I take it to mean what it says. "Shrug" is sort of my version of "sigh" on these things.

Les Sarile · Feb 24, 2012

I also bought a EX condition Pentax LX . . . as well as quite a few items now, but either don't recall the pickup junk fee or just wanted to get my precious personally . . .

BrianShaw · Feb 24, 2012

Roger Cole said:
Apparently I am, according to my fiance anyway, a very literal person. She finds it amusing. I shrug. I don't know any other way to be than to assume that people mean what they say, or write, and not some other meaning I should have to guess at. I do usually recognize overt sarcasm, irony (or just plain smart assedness) and so on, but absent that, I take it to mean what it says. "Shrug" is sort of my version of "sigh" on these things.

That's not a problem, Roger. My wife says the same about me... and more. I may be wrong, but took that as a "rant" against a trend seen all-to-often lately, not a specific comment solely about this particular thread.

Re: shrug vs sigh... in my book they are interchangable and not intended to be offensive or to be taken personally. I sometimes roll my eyes too.

leicarfcam · Feb 24, 2012

Marc B. said:
Shop around.
There are the used departments at Adorama and B&H.
Besides KEH, other re-sellers of used equipment that I've had good luck with:

Adorramit to ya....masters of the bait and switch...

B&H.....Over-priced used equipment...I will admit they are fair on new prices and they have a large inventory of new gear..

Marc B. said:
Pacific Rim Cameras
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/

Either non-working over-priced junk or if working..over-priced...

Marc B. said:
Kenmore Cameras
http://www.kenmorecamera.com/

Very little vintage inventory. When they do have it it is over-priced...

Marc B. said:
Blue Moon Camera & Machine
http://www.bluemooncamera.com/

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-priced on what little used gear they have..

Marc B. said:
Midwest Photo Exchange
Dead Link Removed

Very little used gear inventory..

The only options here in the US for fair priced used gear is either KEH or Collectable Cameras http://www.collectiblecameras.com/

dehk · Feb 24, 2012

How did this turned into bad mouthing keh? Whenever they send me bgn stuff its always better than what I expect, and they ship fast, packed well.

I just want the darn as is section back! Bad mouth some more they might just not put them back

BrianShaw · Feb 24, 2012

I believe it was at post #4. Any KEH thread seem to go downhill fast.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2012

Les Sarile said:
I also bought a EX condition Pentax LX . . . as well as quite a few items now, but either don't recall the pickup junk fee or just wanted to get my precious personally . . .

I hear you, but it was going to be a few days before I could get over there, so FedEx was just as quick, maybe quicker.

I bought mine in October of 2010. Just checked my records - $364 in EX condition (which is accurate, maybe really LN-) with FA1 finder. Right now they only list an engraved one in EX, for $449. That's not a knock on KEH - the values have risen.

Anyway, can't say for sure they still charge this fee. I've bought a couple of things since but haven't asked about picking them up.

MFstooges · Feb 24, 2012

j-dogg said:
this. the only people complaining about the removal of as-is are the brokedicks buying as-is and hoping for the arrival of something EX. it's basically a crapshoot. Kind of like craigslist but you can't check it out in person.

I complain about this removal too but I am not expecting to get someting excellent with junk price. I expect to get a junk. I need couple parts of old cameras and scavenging parts from junk is the most feasible way to do. Otherwise I have to buy new parts and it could cost as much as buying two functional cameras of the same type. Most people here wouldn't understand it and will always say 'just buy a functional one, it's dirt cheap!'.

ME Super · Feb 24, 2012

Well, I have only purchased two things from KEH. Ordered them both at the same time, both were Bargain-grade items. One was a camera, the other was a lens. The only thing I found wrong was that the LCD in the viewfinder of the camera was a bit faded and hard to read. Otherwise functionally and cosmetically the camera is perfect. The lens creeps a bit towards the longer focal lengths when pointed straight down. As it's a rather large lens, and I'm not usually taking pictures of the ground, this doesn't bother me either. I have made beautiful pictures with this outfit.

Shipping was fast (shipped the next day, I had it two days later shipped FedEx ground). I would buy bargain grade again from them. I'm actually eyeballing a camera from them for my 12-year-old son as he is drooling over the pictures I've made with it.

ME Super

zumbido · Feb 24, 2012

KEH, never had a problem with. Adorama, straight-up scammers. B&H, still have never ordered from because their price on anything I want is too premium compared to Amazon.

Since we're throwing around our two pennies each. ;P

Leigh B · Feb 24, 2012

Roger Cole said:
While I sort-of agree that people are often unfair to KEH, the assertion that people are too cheap to buy new is unfair in today's market. Most of what we are buying is simply not available new, at any price.

Hi Roger,

I agree, with qualifications.

I bought most of my LF lenses from KEH because they weren't available elsewhere.
Ones that were available new I bought new. The used ones from KEH were all in EX or better condition.

What gripes me is the folks buying BGN stuff then blaming KEH because it's not pristine.

Those cheap jerks should keep their opinions to themselves and stop maligning a reputable company.

- Leigh

Leigh B · Feb 24, 2012

Roger Cole said:
He didn't say "you're buying UG and As-Is gear because you're too damned cheap to buy EX or LN gear."

That would have been a more accurate statement of my position, but it didn't occur to me.

- Leigh

Roger Cole · Feb 25, 2012

Leigh B said:
Hi Roger,

I agree, with qualifications.

I bought most of my LF lenses from KEH because they weren't available elsewhere.
Ones that were available new I bought new. The used ones from KEH were all in EX or better condition.

What gripes me is the folks buying BGN stuff then blaming KEH because it's not pristine.

Those cheap jerks should keep their opinions to themselves and stop maligning a reputable company.

- Leigh

Well I'd agree. I just must have missed the people doing that. One guy complained they wouldn't refund on a $2 item without shipping it back - now that's a tightwad. But otherwise, it seemed to be people who have had good enough luck buying as-is to want to keep doing it, knowing the risk.

I'm actually very much with you. I haven't even bought BGN from them, though I might. Some things condition is very important to me, other times "good enough" really is good enough.

Leigh B said:
That would have been a more accurate statement of my position, but it didn't occur to me.

- Leigh

Cool, we agree then. If you buy "ugly" you're taking a chance but can return it and be out only shipping. As-is is just that. I can see wanting that category for parts, and I can see gambling on it for those so inclined. But know it IS a gamble, if you hope to us it and not cannibalize it.

fstop · Feb 25, 2012

I only got stuff from the as-is for parts, although 2 bodies were so nice I decided to fix them.

What are they going to do with the stuff that would normally go to as-is?

Marc B. · Feb 26, 2012

What are they going to do with the stuff that would normally go to as-is?

Grab-Bag sales...maybe?

KEH often has some amazing grab-bag sales. Inquire with them as to availability.
These grab-bags are usually organized by camera make, sometimes by model, usually within format.
Mixed filter, body/lens caps, and lens hood grab-bags are almost always available.

HelenOster · Feb 26, 2012

leicarfcam said:
Adorramit to ya....masters of the bait and switch...

zumbido said:
.......Adorama, straight-up scammers.

Extremely concerned to read these comments, and would firstly like to offer a deep and sincere apology for any failings by Adorama staff in the past, whatever they may have been.

I can't ID your previous transactions from your postings, but if you would like to email me directly, Helen@adorama.com with further details about how and when we let you down, I will do whatever it takes to restore your confidence in Adorama - and ensure that departmental managers are made aware of these highly regretable and unforgiveable incidents.

j-dogg · Feb 27, 2012

HelenOster said:
Extremely concerned to read these comments, and would firstly like to offer a deep and sincere apology for any failings by Adorama staff in the past, whatever they may have been.

I can't ID your previous transactions from your postings, but if you would like to email me directly, Helen@adorama.com with further details about how and when we let you down, I will do whatever it takes to restore your confidence in Adorama - and ensure that departmental managers are made aware of these highly regretable and unforgiveable incidents.

I've never had any issues with Adorama, and they are a reputable source for older lenses, especially obscure Canon EOS glass from the 35mm days. It's getting more and more difficult to find older EOS lenses, but here are a few examples

50-200, NEVER see these. They were made for a year or so then pulled. They made an extremely rare L version and I've been saving for one.

Dead Link Removed

100-300 f5.6L, every bit as sharp as modern L glass and one of the cheapest red ringers you can buy

Dead Link Removed

70-210 f4, now these aren't very obscure and can be found, but people usually want 220+ dollars for them. This one is 150 and in E+

Dead Link Removed

You can bet when I get back on my feet I will be making a couple purchases of some older EOS lenses over there. Had in mind the 100-300L, a 17-35L and something with some serious length (like a Tokina AT-X 400 f5.6 if you get one) and I might trade in my minty 20-35 f3.5-4.5 with hood in on them.

MattKing · Feb 27, 2012

FWIW Helen has been quite active here on APUG.

It is clear to me that Adorama has given her resources and the mandate to locate customers who have concerns and take steps to make things right.

While this might reflect a change in approach, it is certainly a positive change.

Shootar401 · Feb 27, 2012

I bought a as-is Nikon F4s for $25 at one of their sales last year. Put the batteries in and it didn't power up. Gave it a good whack on the bottom and bang! Works like a charm! I also bought a bgn Nikon F5 for $350, when it arrived I had to double check to see if they got my order wrong, it looked like it just came from the factory, 99% finish and pristine condition.

I agree 100% with the Adorama feedback, I used to order from them, but I've had too many issues. My girlfriend just bought a Nikon D4 and a Nikon 400 /2.8 from a certain NYC "superstore", but before that she almost ordered it from Adorama, had to stop her form that mistake. I already budgeted $12K this year for a new Profoto strobe system, and I know who I will NOT be ordering it from!

If only KEH had some Profoto gear

clayne · Feb 27, 2012

Ahhh the joys of film and not laying out 10k$ on digital bullshit. The manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Sirius Glass · Feb 27, 2012

I for one can think of may other things to do with $12,000US than spending it on digi-snapping!

No more AS-IS at KEH

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