No more AS-IS at KEH

Johnkpap · Feb 23, 2012

I recieved another nice order with more AS-IS Items yesterday, 3 of my items were AS-IS or UG one was BGN

The AS-IS Pentax Winder was a easy fix,just needed the Batt Holder cleaned had a batt leak at some point, the other item is a Nikkormat FT-2 Very clean no dents, shutter is locked up, I will clean it and fix-it soon. My UG bronica ETRS lens was like New !!! a very Nice supprise -> My GS 200mm lens was More like LN- than Ex.

I was so happy, I went to the website to look for more AS-IS items to buy to fix.....Its GONE

The blog explains that they have pulled it off.....and are RE-EVALUATING IT !!!

Will this mean no more Parts cameras, or Accesory's that are a easy to fix ??

Does anyone on the inside know what is going on ?

Johnkpap

jackie_like_the_chan · Feb 23, 2012

I wish I knew what to say, I was reading this and thinking really? I can get ug stuff and fix it and use it?!?! SWEET... OH NOOOOOOOS!!!!!! So now I am sad.

willrea · Feb 23, 2012

This is a bummer

Vonder · Feb 23, 2012

All of KEH's stuff is "AS-IS" since they don't test any of it. Search and you'll find plenty of stories of BGN, UG, EX items that simply don't work. What they're doing now is charging you more.

Les Sarile · Feb 23, 2012

KEH doesn't have over the counter sales - which is a good or a bad thing depending on your view, so this event may be close to that -> KEH CAMERA BUYING EVENT

billbretz · Feb 23, 2012

All of KEH's stuff is "AS-IS" since they don't test any of it.

I don't think that is being fair to KEH. AS-IS generally means no returns, that is not Keh's policy, unless, perhaps, specifically sold "AS-IS."

billbretz · Feb 23, 2012

From KEH's blog, 2/21/12:

"As-Is Equipment- Yes, we recently posted a blog article (which has seen been temporarily pulled) that talked about the As-Is, or AI category at KEH. It happened to be ironic and bad timing , but a few days after the article was published the category needed to be suddenly (and temporarily) taken off the web. For now, the AI inventory is not available for sale. We are having an internal evaluation of the entire category and in the process of determining the future of it. We apologize for any inconvenience, and will let you know when it's back up and available to shop in again. "

removed account4 · Feb 23, 2012

Wolfeye said:
All of KEH's stuff is "AS-IS" since they don't test any of it. Search and you'll find plenty of stories of BGN, UG, EX items that simply don't work. What they're doing now is charging you more.

actually this isn't exactly true. i just spoke with them yesterday
( i've bought maybe 3 or 4 lenses and a few cameras from them over the years )
and this very thing was talked about in our conversation ...
they do test things ... they make sure they are mechanically working before
they put ratings on their items that say so ... they have a return policy ( 2 week no hassle )
and a warrantee system in place as well ( 6 month ). some of their ratings refer to cosmetics
but some also refer to functionality.

folks that don't believe this should call KEH and speak with them in person ..

dehk · Feb 23, 2012

I know, I was gonna get more AS-IS and I cant. Pissed me off.

BrianShaw · Feb 23, 2012

I'll mail you $2 if you'll delete that post, Eugen. I can't believe someone is accusing someone else about being cheap and also promising retaliation over $2. Talk about cheap!

leicarfcam · Feb 23, 2012

Eugen Mezei said:
Don't let you be fooled by them being in the camera business. They are not camera experts. They are traders. Their skills are in the comercial field not in the tehnical domain. In fact they could sell potatoes or whatever else.

This is absolutely false....I've known King Grant (owner) for years even going back to the days when he had a store in Dallas Tx run by his now ex-wife and he along with his sons are in fact camera experts and excellent photographers in their own right. His ex even has a lot of camera knowledge...

I can't speak for any of the sales people but most sales people will usually say"I don't know" mainly for liability issues since they themselvies have not inspected the item(s) in particular you are inquiring about..

summicron1 · Feb 23, 2012

Eugen Mezei said:
If you are not from the U.S. you will practically always buy As-Is from KEH.
Don't let you be fooled by them being in the camera business. They are not camera experts. They are traders. Their skills are in the comercial field not in the tehnical domain. In fact they could sell potatoes or whatever else.
They have a simple policy: If it doesn't correspond, turn it back. This is very nice but for up to a very high price limit practicable only if you reside in the US.

I think this is very unfair, dude. I've been dealing with KEH for more than 20 years and the only time I was disappointed was when I bought an "UG" lens shade for a Rollei and it was worse than UG, it was junk, but I didn't send it back because I'm lazy and they do warn you that the stuff is pretty beat up in that category.

Other than that, everything I've bought from them is in better shape than what their description would lead you to believe. Their prices are fair. If used equipment occasionally has issues, well, welcome to the wonderful world of mechanical objects of any sort. If something's not perfect, you deal with it or you accept it, but you don't expect a dealer in used mechanical objects to always find every flaw in advance. That's unrealistic.

Sirius Glass · Feb 23, 2012

Wolfeye said:
All of KEH's stuff is "AS-IS" since they don't test any of it. Search and you'll find plenty of stories of BGN, UG, EX items that simply don't work. What they're doing now is charging you more.

They test the equipment to see if it works, but they do not to a complex check out of the equipment. If it does not work, they will take it back and refund the money or replace it.

Sirius Glass · Feb 23, 2012

Eugen Mezei said:
If you are not from the U.S. you will practically always buy As-Is from KEH.
Don't let you be fooled by them being in the camera business. They are not camera experts. They are traders. Their skills are in the comercial field not in the tehnical domain. In fact they could sell potatoes or whatever else.

I think you are really unfair and quite in accurate. They work hard to please and they have spent a lot of time with me on the telephone to get answers for my questions.

By the way, a few minutes on the internet would have told you that 3"x4" film is really 3" 1/4 x 4 1/4" or 3,25"x4,25", as written in Europe.

Johnkpap · Feb 23, 2012

Thanks Everyone for your input.

Being a Overseas customer, I am going to be charged $65 for shipping a EX item so "What the hell buy some AS-IS, BGN and UG stuff for parts or to fix, shipping is going to be the same" I would not even bother sending a $12.00 Item back..... I am Expecting it to be Broken

Nothing I have bought has been of no use or Worse than described.

My best AS-IS buys needed just mirror foam and or a clean Others I used to fix my broken cameras.

My Latest UG Buy Just need to be put on a camera and used nothing UG here !!!

My EX Items have been in almostNew condition.

I am just disapointed that I won't have as much fun with the AS-IS and UG buys

Johnkpap

Brett_Jurgens · Feb 23, 2012

I have always had good luck buying from them. I typically never buy items marked above bargain. Many of their bargain items showed up in much better shape than described. Once, I purchased a Bronica 135-w (panoramic) back from them and it showed up as a normal 35mm back. It had been labeled incorrectly. After many apologies from them, they paid to have it shipped back and quickly refunded me. Could not ask for better customer service.

Their as-is section was rather fun. One as-is purchase was a Bronica SQ that took three minutes and a butter knife to fix. Other as-is purchases were truly as is, but were useful for parts. I hope they bring it back.

bwfans · Feb 23, 2012

I see some complaints here. But do you have another mail order used camera store better than KEH?

removed-user-1 · Feb 23, 2012

I will be unhappy if they don't bring back AS IS, I've gotten some interesting items from this category. The best was a pair of trashed RB67 bodies for $2 and $5, one with bad bellows that was otherwise in great shape, and another that was not working but had a nice bellows. Swapped the bellows, and presto, $17 RB67 body including shipping.

One Nikon F4 camera I bought from them (not AS IS but EX) had a bad aperture lever and I sent it back for a replacement with no trouble. In fact the only complaint I have about KEH in 15+ years of ordering from them is that I can't go wander around their stockroom in person.

Leigh B · Feb 23, 2012

I'm sick and tired of folks bad-mouthing KEH.

You're buying used gear because you're too damned cheap to buy new gear.

IT'S USED GEAR.

KEH is a business. How much time can they expend checking something they sell for under $10?

They have excellent company policies regarding refunds and repair. Better than any other company I've dealt with.

If you don't like it, buy new.

- Leigh

kivis · Feb 23, 2012

I have dealt with KEH for years and have dozens of camera items. I almost always buy BGN because they are in great user shape. Never had a problem plus if I didn't like it, returns with 100% refunds has always been smooth.

Vonder · Feb 23, 2012

Sirius Glass said:
They test the equipment to see if it works, but they do not to a complex check out of the equipment. If it does not work, they will take it back and refund the money or replace it.

That's sort of accurate. You get to be their fine QA. And I've had far too many items from them arrive DOA to agree with what you say; it's a matter of convenience to them. If they happen to have a battery they'll test it, if not, well, it looks good, it powers on, let's not spend any time on it and see it it works by having someone buy it. That's the only explanation I have for the Nikon N60 I got from them that simply didn't work. I have also had them refuse to refund shipping cost back to them. These are valid and true experiences I have had. Whether folks choose to believe them, well, that I can't control.

Someone asked who else? Well, B&H and Adorama both sell used gear. I've never had a problem with them. Look at eBay for used gear. While there used to be horror stories about eBay, they've changed, and now back the buyer 100%. I have had sellers on ebay get all rude when I asked to return a defective item, one guy even tried to respond with "You bought it. No refunds" because although I was fully willing to send it back, I wanted shipping fees refunded too, both ways. That's only fair when you misrepresent an item (in my mind anyway), and he did. Well, ebay refunded everything, including shipping, and I ended up throwing the item away.

I don't mind getting junk. I mind having to pay a single penny for it.

Marc B. · Feb 24, 2012

...But do you have another mail order used camera store better than KEH?

Shop around.
There are the used departments at Adorama and B&H.
Besides KEH, other re-sellers of used equipment that I've had good luck with:

Pacific Rim Cameras
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/

Kenmore Cameras
http://www.kenmorecamera.com/

Blue Moon Camera & Machine
http://www.bluemooncamera.com/

Midwest Photo Exchange
Dead Link Removed

BradleyK · Feb 24, 2012

summicron1 said:
I think this is very unfair, dude. I've been dealing with KEH for more than 20 years and the only time I was disappointed was when I bought an "UG" lens shade for a Rollei and it was worse than UG, it was junk, but I didn't send it back because I'm lazy and they do warn you that the stuff is pretty beat up in that category.

Other than that, everything I've bought from them is in better shape than what their description would lead you to believe. Their prices are fair. If used equipment occasionally has issues, well, welcome to the wonderful world of mechanical objects of any sort. If something's not perfect, you deal with it or you accept it, but you don't expect a dealer in used mechanical objects to always find every flaw in advance. That's unrealistic.

+1. I have been a KEH customer since October 1981 (when I lived in Atlanta) and I, too, will attest that I have often found the company stingy on their ratings: most of what I have purchased (Nikon, Leica and Hasselblad cameras and lenses) has been in far better shape than the ratings have indicated (see a recent post I put up re a pair of "As-Is" chrome F2 bodies). I have yet - after 31 years of dealing with these folks - to EVER have had an issue with any item I have purchased. I am confident enough in the integrity of this company, and the knowledge and competence of the folks that Mr Grant employs, that not only will I continue dealing with KEH for the next 31 years (despite the fact that I now live some 6000km away on the west coast of Canada), I will continue to recommend unequivocally the company to others.
Insofar as functional issues go, KEH is selling - for the most part - used mechanical and electronic objects which have - by any reasonable admission - finite lives (dependent, for the most part, on their prior treatment); to expect KEH, or, indeed, any other seller to have full knowledge of the products they sell is wholly unreasonable. Despite the best of intentions, the volume of product and the manifold manner in which these items can fail will always result in a few "bad apples" slipping through. We analog types have to accept the fact that most of the equipment we will use in the future will come to us with some history (i.e. most of what we will buy through the used market). Ya plays da game, ya take ya chances...

j-dogg · Feb 24, 2012

Leigh B said:
I'm sick and tired of folks bad-mouthing KEH.

You're buying used gear because you're too damned cheap to buy new gear.

IT'S USED GEAR.

KEH is a business. How much time can they expend checking something they sell for under $10?

They have excellent company policies regarding refunds and repair. Better than any other company I've dealt with.

If you don't like it, buy new.

- Leigh

this. the only people complaining about the removal of as-is are the brokedicks buying as-is and hoping for the arrival of something EX. it's basically a crapshoot. Kind of like craigslist but you can't check it out in person.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2012

Leigh B said:
I'm sick and tired of folks bad-mouthing KEH.

You're buying used gear because you're too damned cheap to buy new gear.

IT'S USED GEAR.

KEH is a business. How much time can they expend checking something they sell for under $10?

They have excellent company policies regarding refunds and repair. Better than any other company I've dealt with.

If you don't like it, buy new.

- Leigh

While I sort-of agree that people are often unfair to KEH, the assertion that people are too cheap to buy new is unfair in today's market. Most of what we are buying is simply not available new, at any price.

I bought a Pentax LX from KEH, in EX or EX- (forget, could check.) It had a tiny bit of covering lifting at the corner that I had to glue back in a few months but was otherwise as described. I think I paid around $360 for it; they've gone up since then. I already had K mount lenses. What new, pro grade, film camera would you suggest I buy to use with my manual focus K mount lenses? There are a few, knock offs of K1000 type cameras, but there is NOTHING remotely like the quality and capability of the LX available new in K mount.

Now if it were available new it would probably cost $2000 or so. In that case, yeah, I'd have still bought the used one. I don't think that makes me cheap. I think that makes me "not totally stupid and not having a a business use to write off and depreciate the purchase on taxes."

No more AS-IS at KEH

removed-user-1

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