No more 3-packs from Fujifilm

BradS said:

The title seems a bit alarmist...

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I have just has a look at the petapixel link and unless he has edited it then at best Fuji was not at pains to point out that the steady decline in demand was Japan only. It might easily be read as a steady decline worldwide.

Yes Fuji has never been the best at communicating its announcements but this announcement seems to make no attempt at qualifying where the steady decline is isolated to, if indeed it is isolated

There are those who seem determined to rationalise every worrying announcement into a "don't worry, be happy, it is all good news" response. DT delivered a "good news for America" speech the other day and like all politicians that is his stock in trade but we are rightly sceptical or should be of what politicians with vested interests say. However when it comes to film companies and professional commentators of film companies announcements and actions it would seem that we tend to leave our desire to ask incisive questions at home.

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

I have just has a look at the petapixel link and unless he has edited it then at best Fuji was not at pains to point out that the steady decline in demand was Japan only. It might easily be read as a steady decline worldwide.

Yes Fuji has never been the best at communicating its announcements but this announcement seems to make no attempt at qualifying where the steady decline is isolated to, if indeed it is isolated

There are those who seem determined to rationalise every worrying announcement into a "don't worry, be happy, it is all good news" response. DT delivered a "good news for America" speech the other day and like all politicians that is his stock in trade but we are rightly sceptical or should be of what politicians with vested interests say. However when it comes to film companies and professional commentators of film companies announcements and actions it would seem that we tend to leave our desire to ask incisive questions at home.

pentaxuser

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Not sure who you're comparing to the current occupant but...ah, geeez, let's not go there.

The quoted announcement is from Fujifilm Japan - that is a Japan only distributor, not a manufacturer (although there is a close relationship).

pentaxuser said:

I have just has a look at the petapixel link and unless he has edited it then at best Fuji was not at pains to point out that the steady decline in demand was Japan only. It might easily be read as a steady decline worldwide.
pentaxuser

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No, it cannot at all be read as a decline worldwide because both 3-packs have ever been Japan only products, which have never been offered by Fujifilm worldwide!!
Two small Japan only niche products without any relevance for the worldwide market.
Due to my Japanese source (my film distributor there) Premium 400 has been described by Fujifilm as a film which "renders normal Japanese skin tones better". It's a special product, and in global terms a niche product.
By the way, from my latest journey to Asia I know that the latest hot beauty trend there is having very bright, white, pale skin. People are protecting their skin from the sun, using cosmetics for that etc. Maybe that trend is also coming to Japan? Maybe the look of this film does not fit the preferences anymore? Who knows......I am not into beauty trends, I am a hopeless case with my look......

Is Kodak making a film which renders 'US-American skin tones' better? No. Has Agfa made a film for 'German skin tones'? No. Has Ferrania made a film for 'Italien skin tones'? No.
But Fujifilm has one for its home market. And non-customers from overseas are complaining......
Before this PP post you even don't know that these 3-packs have existed. You have never used it. The products have no relevance at all for your personal photography. Or for the OP miha, or AgX.
And the same is valid probably for 99.9% of all photrio members here.
Even for me as an Industrial 100 user it is not relevant as I have never used the 3-packs. I have even never seen them on offer at any Japanese shop. Have only seen the 100 rolls factory cardboard boxes (in which all films are delivered) and the single boxes.
The films are not discontinued. Just two three packs. And 24EXP and 36EXP are available.

It is so strange that again so much hot air is pumped in a topic by members who are not affected at all by the topic.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger said:

Is Kodak making a film which renders 'US-American skin tones' better? No. Has Agfa made a film for 'German skin tones'? No. Has Ferrania made a film for 'Italien skin tones'? No.
But Fujifilm has one for its home market.

Henning

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if you read the tables at the back of "Making Kodak Film" closely - you will see that Kodak at least at one time made a film with supposed enhancements for the skin tones found in India. and when they were butting heads with Fuji, they made a film specially for the Japan Market.

the films that AGFA made for the world market - some may argue were optimized to northern European Skin tones.

cmacd123 said:

the films that AGFA made for the world market - some may argue were optimized to northern European Skin tones.

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As a side note: Agfa never made special colour films for special markets.

Interesting point about a film to render Japanese skin tones better. Presumably such a film also renders most Oriental races skin tones better such as at least the Chinese, Korean etc or is there something different in Japanese skin tones?

pentaxuser

I remember, a long time ago, I had in my minilab a set of Fuji (from Fuji supplier) bullseye negatives, along with the reference print, in all the different speeds.
After doing a Fuji negative channel set up and upkeep I would then have to take out cyan from the final print as these negs were biased towards making Oriental skin less yellow.
I never had the same problem with the Kodak, Agfa, Konica or 3M bullseyes. Nor did I have the problem with the Fuji bullseyes from an independent European supplier.

Regarding 3packs of film and marketing, last year Fuji Ireland stopped supplying C200 and Xtra in the 35mm 3 pack. The film is just available in single pack of 135-36. Some of our customers were disappointed so we offered a special price for 3 of the single packs and the sales picked up again and are now back to the same volume of what the 3 pack was.

Another multi-pack Fuji (locally) had at Christmas was a 5 pack of Instax mini with a €5 off the RRP. We were sold out on Christmas Eve.

Kodak and Agfa consumer films historically at least (70s, 80s) erred towards browner hues on skin. This was so that the typical consumer with their holiday snaps from their annual break could demonstrate how good a tan they had achieved

In Northern Europe; A Tan = I am wealthy enough to afford holidays in the med or smilar destination. I have a lot of leisure time.

Historically of course say Pre WWI, and air travel, a tan (for women particularly) meant 'this person must spend a lot of time outside, so must be a peasant working in a field' hence wealthier women (and aspiring ones) spent a lot of time of keeping their faces white (and wore clothes in white fabrics impractical for work ) Therefore white face = I am too wealthy to need to work.
This only began to change from the 30s onwards and certainly by the 1960s.

In Japan and Asia more generally, there is still for women particulalry a cultural preference towards whiter skin, which again still reflects 'I dont work in a field' and have a youthful /take care of/ my appearance. (If you go to Vietnam all the women actually working in the fields and on building sites both wear a hat and fully cover their faces for this reason). With the increased understanding of skin cancer this of course is actually a good idea, particuarly if you can't afford suncream.

Fuji consumer films therefore generally have neutral tones so white skin looks white, not slightly tanned.

Whilst one can see it simplifies the product range the loss of 3 packs in Japan is a significant issue from a pricing perspective. Buying 3 films separately costs about 10% more, depending on sales losses this will result in increased profits. They are routinely in the top selling items on Yodobashi so clearly not an unpopular format.

Last year Fuji also pulled Superia 400 (only in 3 packs) from the Japan market, despite again being one of the top 6 selling films on Yodobashi pre the announcement, no doubt this was also due to 'declining sales'. This left Premium 400 which was priced about 40% more at the time or needing to switch to Colour 100 as the cheaper option.

Presumably due to import duties, Kodak colour film in Japan is even more expensive, so removing 3 packs, Fuji consumer av CN prices increase, without actually putting prices up, whilst still keeping them below Kodak prices. The 3 packs are particularly important for price sensitive (read younger) consumers, something that is not lost on Lomography who buy lower volumes and cerainly aren't in the market for 10 packs.

The other reason this has raised eyebrows is that the removal of 3-packs by Fuji in the past has pressaged the subsequent withdrawal of a film (e.g. Superia 1600) and the switch to singles being a final move before a sell down on the remaining stock. (JCH has made this point in the past) That seems unlikely in this case, it remains to be seen if retailers will offer 3 for 2 deals or similar if Fuji offer sufficient volume discounts to them.

So let me get this straight. Fuji announces that a little-known Japanese-only product is no longer available in 3-packs but is still available in single units. It's name sounds a bit like a product that's popular in the West....and people start to worry. I know Fuji has axed a lot of products in recent years but we know that they've had large, unexpected increases in film sales and cannot keep up with production. The sky isn't falling in this time.

cmacd123 said:

if you read the tables at the back of "Making Kodak Film" closely - you will see that Kodak at least at one time made a film with supposed enhancements for the skin tones found in India. and when they were butting heads with Fuji, they made a film specially for the Japan Market.

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Hello Charles,
I own both of Robert Shanebrook's excellent books. Therefore I know that. During the film boom times there have been such regional offerings. For example in Germany Kodak offered their "Farbwelt" line of amateur CN films, which were Gold line films a little bit changed for the German speaking markets (including Austria and Switzerland).
But that is all long gone.
What I was meant is that Kodak has not offered this regional specialities for many years now, whereas Fujifilm still has such a speciality in their programme. I find that quite surprising.
Looks like - at least so far - the demand from the Japanese market has been sufficient enough to continue production.

Best regards,
Henning

pentaxuser said:

Interesting point about a film to render Japanese skin tones better. Presumably such a film also renders most Oriental races skin tones better such as at least the Chinese, Korean etc or is there something different in Japanese skin tones?
pentaxuser

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Tell a Chinese, Korean,Vietnamese, Thai....etc. that he looks like a Japanese - or vice versa - and you have a safe way to end your life immediately .
Joking aside, depending on the region people in Asia are looking very differently. With lots of different skin tone renditions.

Best regards,
Henning

Arcadia4 said:

The other reason this has raised eyebrows is that the removal of 3-packs by Fuji in the past has pressaged the subsequent withdrawal of a film (e.g. Superia 1600) and the switch to singles being a final move before a sell down on the remaining stock. (JCH has made this point in the past).

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But this has not been a reliable indicator at all so far.
Some years ago the format 135 multipacks (3 or 5 packs, depending on the film type) of C200, Superia X-Tra 400, Pro 400H, Provia 100F, Velvia 50 and 100 were discontinued.
Immediatley the Fujifilm critics claimed that that is a clear evidence that these films will be all discontinued soon.
But that did not happen.
Instead some time later 3-packs of C200 and Superia X-Tra 400 with completely new package-design were reintroduced in the North American markets.
And also quite some time later Fujifilm made a clear commitment to continued standard-film film production including all these six films mentioned above at Photokina 2018.
They declared that on a big billboard on their booth, and flyers with the exact same design and content of the billboard as well.
I have attached this commitment below.

Best regards,
Henning