No luck with Fuji Crystal Archive Type II

rootberry · May 31, 2011

So I've been through a box of 11x14 trying to get a print without some kind of crazy color cast with no success. I've printed portra 160nc with tetenal, arista, and silver pixel chemistry and cannot get rid of the cyan/green color cast.. There is either too much green, or instantly too much magenta. Not to mention the very cool color balance overall. The data sheet specifies the fuji chemistry that the paper is designed for, but I can't seem to find a source for it- plus, I'm printing in trays right now.

Has anyone had decent success with this paper yet? I have prints on the wall from Fuji 160s printed on old Type C, and I love them. This new stuff seems unusable with Kodak Portra.

hpulley · May 31, 2011

The Kodak Ektacolor RT kit seems to work well with Fuji CA Type II. It is cooler than Kodak Supra but I find that too warm at times. For me it is just about 10 less magenta and yellow on the dichroic head.

Vonder · Jun 1, 2011

Great success here

I've only recently began color work, and my second stab at it was with Fuji Crystal Archive type II with excellent results. I use the ARISTA 2 LITER RA-4 chemistry from Freestyle. I analyze the first print with a color print viewing kit and by the third print, usually, I have acceptable color.

I have not tried the paper with Portra - so thank you for the warning! I shoot mostly Fuji Reala and Superia 400, with Kodak Gold 100 & 200 being my other favorites. The paper certainly seems to work well with the Fuji films.

rootberry · Jun 1, 2011

Glad to hear it, but are you printing portra? With that arista kit, the closest I could get was 0Y 45M 10C and the cast was still very cyan/magenta.. I'll have to try out the kodak chems I suppose, but I thought the silver pixel stuff is quite similar..

randyB · Jun 1, 2011

Is the color cast in all areas of the print including the white border? Could it be contamination? Are you using a safelight? Is it the correct one? Could light from the enlarger be bouncing off something and fogging the paper? And lastly, do you have a scan that you can show us?

hpulley · Jun 1, 2011

I'm printing Ektar, Reala, 400NPH, Superia 400/800, Portra 160NC/160/400VC/400 and old Kodacolor, Agfacolor, et al. All using Ektacolor RT with Fuji CA II and Kodak Supra papers

rootberry · Jun 1, 2011

The color cast is everywhere on the image. The white areas do not appear affected. I'm using a durst CLS head, with no safelight. I haven't tried printing any fuji films, just portra since that's the bulk of what I've shot the past 3 years or so... I can't find any light leaks anywhere.. Hmm.

I'm getting an overall very cold tone, and no matter what filtration I use the print's either too blue or too cyan. The print I was working on yesterday was taken in very warm summer light. I will try to get a scan to show tonight.

hpulley · Jun 1, 2011

Why are you dialing in some cyan? I never use cyan, just yellow and magenta.

L Gebhardt · Jun 1, 2011

I haven't used this stuff yet. What temp are you using? Maybe try heating it to 86F if you are using it room temperature. I really hope this new paper can work in the Kodak chemistry as I am almost out of Type C.

pentaxuser · Jun 1, 2011

Do you have any other film negs? Try a neg from another film type and see if the cast remains. I doubt if the film is to blame but you need to eliminate possible causes. I may have misunderstood your cast categorisation but you have mentioned different casts. When you say an instant change from too green to too magenta are you saying you change the M filtration by say as little as 1-2 units and the change to the opposite cast the occurs?

Filtration with Fuji paper is in my experience more critical thanwith Kodak paper but while I have seen a change with as little as 2 units ( Durst Dichroic head in my case) it is quite subtle and not an instant reverse

pentaxuser

2F/2F · Jun 1, 2011

Hi,

How were the negatives processed?

Josh Harmon · Jun 1, 2011

I find that when not stored in a fridge for long periods of time (ie greater than a day), that Fuji CA II gives a cyan cast. I printed with it fresh and was fine, but forgot to put it back in the freezer and now I have a cyan color cast.

Roger Cole · Jun 1, 2011

Josh Harmon said:
I find that when not stored in a fridge for long periods of time (ie greater than a day), that Fuji CA II gives a cyan cast. I printed with it fresh and was fine, but forgot to put it back in the freezer and now I have a cyan color cast.

ONE DAY? Even Ilfochrome is nowhere near that touchy.

How would one even get the stuff home? I, like most everyone these days, will have to order it.

pentaxuser · Jun 1, 2011

Josh Harmon said:
I find that when not stored in a fridge for long periods of time (ie greater than a day), that Fuji CA II gives a cyan cast. I printed with it fresh and was fine, but forgot to put it back in the freezer and now I have a cyan color cast.

If your experience is typical then I fear we can wave goodbye to this particular brand of RA4 if it cannot last for even 24hrs outside of a fridge.

Surely minilabs don't remove all the paper from their machines at the end of every day and store in a fridge?

If this was the case then I'd expect Fuji to issue a strict warning that paper must be removed from a fridge for less than 24hrs

pentaxuser

hpulley · Jun 1, 2011

24 hours??? I normally bring mine out the night or morning before as it needs time to warm up. No problems with a cyan cast here. I think modern papers are not as sensitive. They still recommend storing at 55F or below IIRC but it isn't ruined at room temperature.

hpulley · Jun 2, 2011

Just printing a roll of new Portra 160 (120) this morning. Landscapes strangely after shooting 4-5 rolls of people on Ektar. The landscapes are beautiful printed onto Fuji CA II.

rootberry · Jun 2, 2011

The negs where processed in a refrema, mostly. I'm going back to the drawing board here though, there has to be some sort of cyan fogging or improperly mixed chemicals. I tried another neg, fuji 160s, last night that was shot in very warm late afternoon light and still the cyan/blue cast. I must be getting fogging from the enlarger head, which I've never had before but this is a new paper. I'm also going to add a stop bath. I don't see how the paper gets a cyan cast after not being in a fridge, that seems crazy. I have never been able to keep 16x20 or 20x24 Archive or Endura in a fridge, and have gotten great prints with no cyan.

hpulley · Jun 2, 2011

Cyan fog can be from light leaks, wrong safelight filter or wrong chems. Did you follow the mixing instructions properly, right dilution? Too high a concentration can cause cyan fog and streaking.

The fact that only the image area is affected is odd however. With a bad safelight filter I'd expect to see the fog outside the image area as well; the same goes for improperly mixed chems or badly stored paper.

Is there any light spill from the head?

I use indicator stop bath. I process at room temp, presently 22C. I use a Kodak #13 safelight filter with 15w bulb reflected off the ceiling.

rootberry · Jun 2, 2011

Yes, I suspect that it's the spill from the enlarger head. Why in the world can't you turn on the dial indicator lights?! Makes no sense to me, but I'm going back into the darkroom after work tonight and see if I can't solve it once and for all. Changing the filter pack, then taping it all closed EVERY time is going to be annoying =(

jm94 · Jun 5, 2011

someone on here told me dialing in cyan neutralizes the y/m being dialled in, thus making it useless but i am not sure if it is the case... also you have no Y dialled in. on fuji crystal archive with a jobo head i used: M80 Y65, got great results. works well also with kodak supra III too. hope this helps! you dialled in nowhere near enough magneta, and no yellow which you need!) dont bother dialing cyan for negative film. weather fuji type ii is similar to crystal archive i don't know

hope this helps as a starter point! i was pulling my hair out while trying to do this, wasting sheet after sheet (yellow and magneta casts) so i eventually meditated on it and asking guidance (yes im crazy!) and they were the values i got... worked like a charm and saved me hours and loads of sheets (i was going around the 40/50/60 range with both)... i heard jobo heads have slightly "more" on their dials than others? i also bought some veiwing filters as per suggestions which will help!
the values for the old tetenal paper i had were Y71 M66 (meditation), but give both values ive given a try as a starter point if you are not dialing in enough, but as i said ive never used type ii so i dont know, the sheets also are cyan when new take one out, seal the box and look under the lights) so make sure theres enough development (developed to completion so dont worry about going over) and enough exposure too. i found 3.5 seconds at f.8 at 8x10 in optimal for not-so-dense negatives and 4.5 - 5 seconds for properly exposed negatives.
have you ever printed ra4 before? i would practice on the cheapest smallest sheets you can find!

Bob-D659 · Jun 5, 2011

Which CLS head do you have? Check to see that the filters are moving properly. On the 450, pop the bulb hatch off, swing the clamp out of the way and lift out the bulb. Now you can see the filters move in and out of the light path. Also check them for dust buildup, that can really mess with filter correction and exposure calculations. There is a switch for the dial indicator lights, but there is enough light spill inside the head for them to be illuminated during an exposure. Depending on the head, the dial units are not Kodak cc numbers but Durst numbers.

Josh Harmon · Jun 5, 2011

Whoah, I was being a little dramatic about saying one day. I meant between print sessions, and that was more like a week. I had left the paper in dry place that was more around 75˚f. I apologize for the misinformation.

pentaxuser · Jun 5, 2011

Josh, even a week at 75F isn't much time for a cyan castto form. Unless there were other factors then IMHO this is still a major drawback with the new Fuji paper.

pentaxuser

hpulley · Jun 5, 2011

Kodak Royal paper's data sheet says you can store it at 24C/75F for 6 months. Strangely the Fuji data sheet does not say anything like that, just to store it at 55F/13C. Still, I store my Fuji CA Type II paper at room temperature (these days the basement is around 22C) for weeks without trouble. It doesn't take that long to go through a 100 sheet box.

Obviously if you want to store paper for years then freeze it but it doesn't go bad in a day or a week.

hka · Jun 6, 2011

Fuji papers have a good selflife even if they are not stored in the fridge.

No luck with Fuji Crystal Archive Type II

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