No Love affair with Digital (Thread moved)

Ko.Fe. · Oct 22, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
I found the same and will go one step further, the prints I get from B&W film in my B&W darkroom have a look that I don't believe at least I can get from digital printing, and I'm just now going back to film/DR from shooting digital/LR only for over a decade.

I also find more joy shooting with late 1950's/early 1960's vintage mechanical film cameras, I know that's simply a personal thing.

I have my own film scans printed on inkjet by professional. I like them just as my darkroom prints.

Jim Jones · Oct 22, 2019

As Ces1um said in post #47, choose the right tool for the job at hand. After six decades of using Leica and Nikon film gear, I don't love digital cameras. However, they are much more practical for me here and now. I miss having a darkroom now, although editing digital images is far easier. I miss the image quality of film. If 35mm doesn't quite do the subject justice, 4x5 will. I miss having fine equipment that will serve for decades, and the economy of buying it. Now I can do more for more people with digital photography, which makes giving up the old ways tolerable. There is a price to pay for progress.

Paul Howell · Oct 22, 2019

Mr Jeremy S Rundle said:
I AM old enough to have grown up on film and then moved to digital, I am also a photo journalist holding a UK press card, JUJ.

I can honestly say that whilst I have come back to film as a hobby, be buying my original Nikkormat/Praktica cameras, first enlarger and setting up a darkroom and love it NOTHING beats digital.

No working photographer I know misses film other than as a "hobby" like fishing or stamp collecting.

However, NOTHING prepared me more and made me what I consider to be a bloody good photographer than film days. LEARNING DOF, focus, the relationship between asa/iso/shutter speed and so on, it all carried over to digital.

Just as in knowing how a car engine works may not appear important, the relationship between gears, engine revs, WHEN to change up/down etc does make you a better driver and we all do it instinctively.

I personally think that I AM without doubt a better photographer for the analogue days even though I have £20k worth of DSLR gear

For press and photojournalism I don't know anyone who is still shooting film, but at least here in Arizona I know a few wedding photographers and a brace of fine arts shooters who make a living shooting film, mostly 4X5 and larger.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 22, 2019

I'm a film lover that also shoots digital. Digital is a friend of convenience. Know that digital can do for you as a photographer and don't go beyond that. I haven't fallen in to the digital money pit yet, but it's sure easy.

Luckless · Oct 22, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I'm a film lover that also shoots digital. Digital is a friend of convenience. Know that digital can do for you as a photographer and don't go beyond that. I haven't fallen in to the digital money pit yet, but it's sure easy.

Easy to dive into a money pit with pretty much anything. Even darts players can find money pits to dive into if they try hard enough...

One 'Trust fund starving artist' I know from university recently dropped more on paper than my digital camera cost me, then decided it didn't really 'fit his vision', and he is now complaining about how much room these giant rolls of paper are taking up in his place.

Those with more money than sense will always find ways...

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 22, 2019

Luckless said:
Easy to dive into a money pit with pretty much anything. Even darts players can find money pits to dive into if they try hard enough...

One 'Trust fund starving artist' I know from university recently dropped more on paper than my digital camera cost me, then decided it didn't really 'fit his vision', and he is now complaining about how much room these giant rolls of paper are taking up in his place.

Those with more money than sense will always find ways...

Very true. They're unaware than limitations are needed for creativity.

TMcG1959 · Oct 23, 2019

Some very interesting comments, thank you everyone. Today I ordered a Canon 800D camera and sadly started packing my film equipment away. Dawning of a new era.

Luckless · Oct 23, 2019

TMcG1959 said:
Some very interesting comments, thank you everyone. Today I ordered a Canon 800D camera and sadly started packing my film equipment away. Dawning of a new era.

Don't pack it away too deep. You'll be back soon enough.

Having options on what kind of camera and work process to use for projects is always a good thing.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 23, 2019

TMcG1959 said:
Some very interesting comments, thank you everyone. Today I ordered a Canon 800D camera and sadly started packing my film equipment away. Dawning of a new era.

IMHO. I don't think it needs to be one or the other. I shoot with both. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

Saganich · Oct 23, 2019

I've rarely been in the darkroom printing over past 15 years because of the time away from family as mentioned before, but I never stopped shooting and processing film, so I have 15 years of printing to catch-up on (maybe 3 good ones per year) which is easily managed by outsourcing and yet my darkroom is ready and waiting. Now my youngest is 6th grade and so spending one weekend a month focused on printing seems doable again...now I just need to do it. It's hard to say why I waited and didn't move on to digital, but a good clue is I feel just a little more a sense of accomplishment when I see images I shot, developed, printed, matted, framed, and hung myself on a wall compared to the ones I outsourced.

Patrick Robert James · Oct 23, 2019

I always love how people are just looking for validity with these threads, which is probably why people get so cantankerous.

I shoot mostly film these days. My IPhone is mostly used for photographing the photograph. I take pictures from behind the camera if the camera is on a tripod. I also use it occasionally as an Appleblad. Set the camera to shoot square and black and white so if I ever start an Instagram I'll have a bunch of pics of dubious quality...

Everything i shoot goes through the computer. I proof scan every frame. It is all set up to be a piece of cake and takes no time at all. One of these days I should probably explain how I do it because I've never seen anyone else do it the same way. Easy peasy. I catalog it all, then for black and white I print in the darkroom. For color I'll often go back and rescan the image and print it through the computer. I still like the structure of film vs. the cleanliness of digital. I also prefer color film over color digital. Color film has a nuance that digital lacks. But that is what I see. You may like digital color for what it is. I ain't got no problem with that.

Just because I still shoot film doesn't mean I am anti digital. I shoot it too. If you like it shoot it.

And as far as expense goes, if you want to get out cheap, pick one. Doing both is really expensive, especially if you print both digitally and in the darkroom and want both to be quality.

Wallendo · Oct 23, 2019

I don't have a Love Affair with digital, but digital is often very good for a quickie now and then.

I shoot for my own enjoyment and have gone through many phases in my lifetime. I learned to shoot Kodachrome on a fixed-everything instamatic, graduated to 35mm in high school, when I went to college where I had no projector, I switched to color negative film. Later I was too busy with school for any photography, then I was into video before returning to film, flirting with digital, returning again to film, moving back to digital when the quality improved, and now shoot mostly film now that the cameras I coveted are now very affordable.

My digital images are for the most part just as good as my analog images (which probably isn't saying much ), but I find the analog process more enjoyable. I primarily use a hybrid process, but hope to finish a darkroom sometime soon - I already have the equipment - but may not get to do this until I retire. When I develop, scan, and post-process the image, I am in control at every step of the way. With digital, I generally get a good image right off the bat and only need to make a few tweaks with the image, but it feels like Sony is making the processing decisions, not me.

There are still times when digital is the right tool, and I would never give up the technology completely.

Arklatexian · Oct 23, 2019

Saganich said:
I've rarely been in the darkroom printing over past 15 years because of the time away from family as mentioned before, but I never stopped shooting and processing film, so I have 15 years of printing to catch-up on (maybe 3 good ones per year) which is easily managed by outsourcing and yet my darkroom is ready and waiting. Now my youngest is 6th grade and so spending one weekend a month focused on printing seems doable again...now I just need to do it. It's hard to say why I waited and didn't move on to digital, but a good clue is I feel just a little more a sense of accomplishment when I see images I shot, developed, printed, matted, framed, and hung myself on a wall compared to the ones I outsourced.

What you wrote made me think about what has happened to my "outsourced" photography. Color slides, of course, stay in their nice neat trays waiting to be seen again. On the wall of our dining-room are two 5x7 color photographs, matted and framed. These were bought at art-fairs. The rest, all b&w, 11x14, 16x20, matted and framed, are pictures that I shot, developed the film, proofed and printed in my darkroom, then matted and framed, also by me. Those are the ones that I can and do sit and relive the instant I snapped the shutter. I am sitting at a computer writing this. Sorry folks but the "feeling" is not the same. Did it take hours of my time? Hell, I don't know and I don't care...........Regards!

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 23, 2019

Wallendo said:
I don't have a Love Affair with digital, but digital is often very good for a quickie now and then.

A love affairs isn't made with quickies.

Sirius Glass · Oct 23, 2019

TMcG1959 said:
I decided 6months ago that I needed to make the move from Rolleiflex shooting to digital for reasons of convenience, cost and curiosity. After reading all the reviews and handling a lot of new cameras I find that its shameful that my beautiful Rolleiflex 3,5f may be placed in retirement. However, I have found nothing to replace it - nothing can!

Go Hasselblad and you will have 6x6 film cameras and your Zeiss lenses. The wannabees who brought Hasselblad think that 645 is real photography which we all know is real which it is not.

AndyH · Oct 23, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
IMHO. I don't think it needs to be one or the other. I shoot with both. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

Exactly.

Low light, family snapshots, "event" photography, wildlife, sports, shots where I need digital exports quickly, shots with tricky exposures in hard to repeat environments that almost demand chimping ... I'll use my digital gear 95% of the time.

"Art" photos I take to print, mount, and frame, whether street, landscape, or scenic... - I'll use film gear 95% of the time, then scan electronically (I've been outsourcing, but my volume has increased to the point where I'm going to do my own development and scanning.

Printing? I'm going to revive my darkroom equipment for B/W wet printing, continue to make 8x10 and smaller prints digitally at home, and outsource anything larger, either to Costco or a custom lab.

All of these give me pleasure, and I try to choose the right tool for each specific job. You can cut a piece of plywood down to size with a jigsaw, but wouldn't it make more sense to use something different if you want to do the best job and enjoy the experience without undue frustration? If I were a pro, non-art, photographer, I'd shoot digital 99% of the time, but for the rest of us, this is supposed to be enjoyable. I don't understand dogmatic extremists of any variety, including photoraphers.

Andy

removed account4 · Oct 23, 2019

i saw a ziatype made today from a file made from a cellphone snappy that was one of the most beautiful things i have seen
im not having a love affair with digital or film, but photography, there is so much more to it than tribalism. we live in great times
so much possibility and it doesn't cost much. im making digital negatives with a crappy 65$ printer,
negatives made with a file through a xerox machine, and thin computer paper from the same 65$ printer
waxed on my stove and they work fantastic, and are made into fun stuff .. so much fun to be had, and not much $$ to be spent. the sun is a cheap light source too
digital? film? its all good, just grab a camera, any camera and enjoy yourself, that's what its about ..

Ces1um · Oct 24, 2019

TMcG1959 said:
Some very interesting comments, thank you everyone. Today I ordered a Canon 800D camera and sadly started packing my film equipment away. Dawning of a new era.

I thought so too when I bought a digital camera last year. For the first few months I shot nothing but digital and really loved my results. Inevitiably though some of my film gear has found it's way back into rotation. I've sold off a lot of my film cameras but I've kept 4 or 5 of the more special ones and they get use simply because I love the camera and how it works. It's possible you may find the same thing.

TMcG1959 · Oct 24, 2019

Believe me but this morning I actually emailed the suppliers and cancelled my order for a Canon 800D. So my Rolleis live another day.

Ces1um · Oct 24, 2019

TMcG1959 said:
Believe me but this morning I actually emailed the suppliers and cancelled my order for a Canon 800D. So my Rolleis live another day.

So are you still looking for a digital camera or will you stick entirely with your existing cameras?

TMcG1959 · Oct 24, 2019

In hindsight, my smartphone gives me excellent snapshots of everything I need on the move. I've captured my grandchildren from their formative years 1-5 on a smartphone and filled albums with delightful little 6x4 prints that I treasure. I can simply shoot the serious stuff with my Rolleiflex cameras and take advantage of the possibilities of a new Epson PhotoScanner that does negs up to 6x9. The best of both worlds I suppose.

Ariston · Oct 24, 2019

jnantz said:
i saw a ziatype made today from a file made from a cellphone snappy that was one of the most beautiful things i have seen
im not having a love affair with digital or film, but photography, there is so much more to it than tribalism. we live in great times
so much possibility and it doesn't cost much. im making digital negatives with a crappy 65$ printer,
negatives made with a file through a xerox machine, and thin computer paper from the same 65$ printer
waxed on my stove and they work fantastic, and are made into fun stuff .. so much fun to be had, and not much $$ to be spent. the sun is a cheap light source too
digital? film? its all good, just grab a camera, any camera and enjoy yourself, that's what its about ..

It is cheap! If you think film cameras are cheap at thrift stores, you should check out some of the very capable compact digital cameras at thrift stores that people get rid of when they move on to the next big thing! Nobody wants them because they have phones or whatever else.

Digital or Film, it really is good times.

jvo · Oct 27, 2019

i think you should get rid of all those lousy film camera's and move into the 21st century - get with it, go digital!!!!

p.s. (you can pm for my address to send all those no good rolleiflex camera's, since i'm one of late, late, late adopters... )

Fred V · Nov 2, 2019

Just like take snaps as I'm not a photographer. The film seems more expensive than phone. Sometime, I think I just like collecting cheap old cameras and tinkering gear. The digital seems easier because I'm not familiar with mechanism, but datasheets for chips mostly are not available and sensor chips are not cheap . Recipes for analogue sprinkle all over web which make it a more viable option. As a former computer programmer, analogue is appealing to me. The feeling of triggering mechanical shutter is so fantastic. Current thoughts of tinker are making emulsion or mix-in camera form parts of bad gears(I have broken D100,so I can get sensor with datasheet) and waiting for a decent enlarger lens at acceptable price to make a tiny darkroom.

You can choose whatever you feel fun, that is great. Do something after thought, and continue thinking while doing.
I normally take whatever at hand, film , P&S(compact) digi, DSLR if any. At last I have phone, I like it but worry the security, everyone connected to network may be watching you. And everyone may be watching by us though lens, weird.

First Post on APUG,. English isn't my native language, and I do not master it well. Hope you understand what I said.

Regards,
Fred

TMcG1959 · Nov 2, 2019

I honestly think a lot of the love for digital photography comes from the same love for technology. A generation embracing change.

It really makes my skin crawl when I see a fireworks display followed by a barrage of digital shots of the events hours later on the web.

No Love affair with Digital (Thread moved)

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