No D94 available for reversal processing - Tri-X Super 8

aca91 · Sep 26, 2010

Hello,

I developed a super 8 roll of Tri-X with a Tmax Reversal Kit and got nothing from it. I googled and I found that d-94 is supposed to be the first developer in this kind of normal reversal processing. Anyhow, I won't find d-94 in my city and Im somehow in a hurry: I have the bleach of the Tmax kit, and I suppose I can still use it. My question is if I can replace d-94 as a first developer for rodinal or hc110, for example, and what times should I use. I would also like to know what should I use as a redeveloper, and how much should I reexpose the film. Thanks in advance for your help

nickandre · Sep 26, 2010

Do you have developer mixing chemicals? You need washing soda, Metol, Hydroquinone, potassium bromide, and sodium sulphite.

http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/kodak-d19.html

and here's D94, has some additional stuff in it.

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/negtoposdeveloper.html

hrst · Sep 26, 2010

If you got nothing, that can also be a sign of too much halide solvent (hypo) in first developer. Better safe than sorry, try with a standard BW paper developer without any additives, and if you can't get the contrast right and can't get clear enough highlights, then try to add some sodium thiosulphate (hypo) carefully, at a few grams per liter first.

It's, however, quite surprising you got nothing.

For second developer, almost any will do, but I'd recommend standard paper developer. Do not add hypo to this.

For reversal exposure, it's not that critical. I'm not sure if it is even possible to overdo it in practice. Two minutes near a lightbulb is ok for film on spiral if you move it to give exposure from every direction. If the film is not on a spiral, it's even easier, just have every part of film to have some light.

CBG · Sep 26, 2010

Make your own? All components easily available.

Kodak D-94 first developer for reversal processing of black and white motion picture film.
The "official" first developer for reversal processing of black and white motion picture film.

Working Solution Replenisher
Water 122°F 750 ml 750 ml
Metol 0.6 g 1.3 g
Sodium sulphite anh 50 g 50 g
Hydroquinone 20 g 26 g
Potassium bromide 8 g -------
Sodium Thiocyanate liq. 9.1 ml 11.4 ml
Sodium Hydroxide 20 g 34 g
Water to 1 Litre 1 Litre

pH@27°C (80.6°F)12.75 ± 0.05*****12.80 ± 0.05
S.G.@27°C (80.6°F)1.074 ± 0.003***1.079 ± 0.003

Processing Kodak Motion Picture Films, Manual H24. Module 15, Black and White Films. Eastman Kodak 1991, revised July 2000. John Pearle (CRC)

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

Thank you all for your answers.
Can I use dektol as a first developer? would I need to add something to it? would a highly concentrated rodinal and a lot of agitation help? I have no idea about chemestry, thanks a lot for all this information.
Another thing, is my bleach ok for this task?

hrst · Sep 27, 2010

If you have only Dektol and Rodinal, start with Dektol. It's basically quite close. See also, http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061291034093.pdf

Then, you can add hypo (sodium thiosulfate) to first developer at about 1 - 10 g/l to increase contrast and remove "muddiness" from highlights. If you can't get plain hypo anywhere, you can try adding some fixer (a few milliliters) to the developer, but it will cause some problems like pH change in developer. So anyway, IMO better start without hypo. It will give you a starting point and you should be able to get an image.

Experiment with short strips. It won't take that much time to try out different developing times, exposures etc. And as you have some starting point, we will be able to give more specific tips.

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

Thank you hrst
I did what you told me. I used dektol and bought some hypo and it worked, I have an image. I used 5 minutes for the first developer, then r10 bleach from my tmax kit, then a clearing bath and then I reexposed. The images on the frames were very sharp; then, when I redeveloped and fixed, I saw and the images were still there but they were very gray, they had no contrast. I suppose that happened because I left my film too much time in the second developer. Is that right? maybe a shorter time will do?
Thank you.

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

Update: I checked Kodak's h24 publication and they say it might be totally the opposite. I will do a second strip rising both development times to 7 minutes.

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

I got my strip, thank you for your advice Alessandro. Now I have another problem; my strip came out negative... what am I doing wrong? I think that maybe my bleach, R10, does not need a reexposure, since it is not listed in the steps of my tmax kit. Should I try another strip without reexposing, or should I prepare another bleach?

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

THat's exactly what I did...? I just checked the bottles to be sure; yes, I mixed sulfuric acid with permanganate

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

Is it possible that my tmax kit is expired? It has the old tmax logo

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

By the way, Im clearing before fixing and Im using dektol

hrst · Sep 27, 2010

If you get a negative, that could mean that both your bleach and reversal solution are dead. Or something else, but this is what comes to my mind.

Use re-exposure, it cannot go bad .

After mixing sulfuric acid and permanganate, they won't last forever.

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

I just prepared a new bleach (R-9)following Martin Baumgarten's intructions (water + potassium dichromate + sulfuric acid) I will give it a try, for around three minutes. I'll tell you what happened.

aca91 · Sep 27, 2010

It worked. For anyone that would like to develop motion film without d-94 here is what I did:

1) Dektol stock 1L + hypo +-10g (sodium thiosulfate):8mins at 20º/68f
2) Wash: 30s
3) Bleach (1 L water + Potassium dichromate 9.5g + Sulfuric acid 12ml): 3min
4) Wash: 30s
5) Clearing Bath: 30s
6) Wash
7) Reexposure: 30min, 50cm from 60 watt bulb
8) Dektol stock: 7min
9) Wash: 30s
10) Fix :5min
11) Clearing Bath: 30s
12) Wash: 5min
13) Dry inside the reel with a hair/hot/pistol I have no idea what that thing's name is.

Thanks everyone for helping me out.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 28, 2010

aca91 said:
Update: I checked Kodak's h24 publication and they say it might be totally the opposite. I will do a second strip rising both development times to 7 minutes.

Yes, for reversal processing things appear to be backwards. If your slides are too dense then you need to increase the time in the first developer, and visa versa.

filmcarnivore · Mar 10, 2016

I was told by the chemical company that sold me the dichromate that this substance is very dangerous (I'm sure all of you know this already). For those of you using potassium dichromate for your bleach, how much care do you use when working with this substance during processing? Mask, goggles, gloves? BODY SUIT??

guangong · Mar 10, 2016

I mostly develop 16mm tri x. I find the d-94a developer now recommended by Kodak requires processing times that are too short for home development. The key component I discovered only for sale from China by the ton. The developer is designed for machine development. I use d19. Dichromate must be used with care and precaution but not necessary to go to extremes. Being able to acquire h2so4 concentrated is difficult but not impossible. Living in the world of nanny states I often find it a challenge to buy certain chemicals that I was able to freely purchase at a chemical supply house when I was 12 years old. By the way, what kind of tank do you use for super 8? For 16mm I use winding reel to reel but can find no satisfactory tank for super8. Let me know what you use.

filmcarnivore · Mar 11, 2016

THIS VIDEO IS MY BIBLE VERSE FOR S8 PROCESSING:

georgegrosu · Mar 14, 2016

In the technical data of the film KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266 are referred to treatment:
„This film should be processed with KODAK B&W Reversal Process Kit Chemicals or with solutions prepared
according to the formulas presented in KODAK Publication No.H-24.15, Manual for Processing KODAK
Motion Picture Films, Module 15”
http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/up...s/Camera_Films/7266/Resources/7266_ti2617.pdf
Module 15 – Processing Black-and-White Films
http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/up..._en_motion_support_processing_h2415_h2415.pdf

I appreciate that using the indications given by Kodak you are closer to reality.
Using the indications given by Ilford they are more properly applicable to their products.
ORWO also has a reversible process b&w film Orwo UN 54 - ORWO Instruction no. 4185.

http://www.filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/V-I-VV-4185-e.pdf

George

Ninos · Aug 1, 2017

aca91 said:
I just prepared a new bleach (R-9)following Martin Baumgarten's intructions (water + potassium dichromate + sulfuric acid) I will give it a try, for around three minutes. I'll tell you what happened.

Iam leving in holland I can fine heer
H2SO4 : Sulfuric acid 37% and evry boday talking abut 95% sulfuric acid but in holland I cant fine jast 37%

No D94 available for reversal processing - Tri-X Super 8

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