No bargains in 120 ISO 100 film!

Roger Cole · Jun 8, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
Roger, my project compared apples to apples. There is often a Plan C or a Plan D that makes sense at a point in time for a person. But if I don't need or want heavier items, I'm looking at the calculations I posited. And even then, Freestyle film pricing is only competitive with the house brand.

Well you set the conditions of the comparison to be sure there aren't any bargains, then declare there aren't any bargains. My suggestions were ways to make film more affordable - bundle purchases, or buy the films with free shipping from the New York suppliers. Freestyle is usually NOT the least expensive for anything except their house brands. But they have a huge selection and will ship chemicals hard to get shipped elsewhere. If you can bundle film with that it makes sense. Otherwise you buy where it's least expensive.

I agree there aren't any raving bargains. But I don't think there are any real rip offs (other than sheet film) either. Roll film seems to me pretty fairly priced. E6 is something of an exception but also not what we are talking about here.

michr · Jun 8, 2015

I regularly buy 120 size Ultrafine Xtreme 100 through Ultrafine's eBay store in packs of 10. It's a bit less than $4 a roll. I've never had an issue with the film counter numbers printing through on this particular variety.

I'm always looking for cheaper options. Other posters mentioned getting film direct from Hong Kong for far less. Is there a web store based in Hong Kong that you buy from?

For the original poster, have you considered that if $4 is too expensive for film to put through your camera, you might just need to shell out $40 and buy a better one. There are plenty of 120 folders out there with a full range of shutter speeds.

Paul Howell · Jun 8, 2015

Roger Cole said:
You apparently misunderstood. My impression is that, adjusted for inflation, film cost has remained similar or perhaps even decreased. My point though is that the bottom fell out of prices for film gear, making the equipment now the cheapest thing in photography per shot.

From Wards Photography Catalog 1952

36 ex Plus X $3.84 in 2015 $34.28

6 sheets Plus X 2.24 in 2015 $20.00

Ansco Superpan Press 120 $1.53 in 2015 $13.66

Kodak Tourist II $97.50 in 2015 $866.96

Lindhof Technika $390 in 2015 $3482

Nodda Duma · Jun 8, 2015

PDH I recall in 2007-2009 timeframe that it seemed like everything got dumped on eBay all at once, and good film cameras could be picked up for pennies. Now a few years later it seems the typical prices have crept back up. Not sure if that's due to increasing demand or less cameras on the market.

So IMO you're right...the gear is the lowest costing component. Although, with such prices it's easier to buy more than what you need. So maybe not from that point of view

Paul Howell · Jun 8, 2015

Nodda Duma said:
PDH I recall in 2007-2009 timeframe that it seemed like everything got dumped on eBay all at once, and good film cameras could be picked up for pennies. Now a few years later it seems the typical prices have crept back up. Not sure if that's due to increasing demand or less cameras on the market.

So IMO you're right...the gear is the lowest costing component. Although, with such prices it's easier to buy more than what you need. So maybe not from that point of view

I think your right, as folks moved to digital a lot of gear and old stock chemistry was sold off. There were a lot of good buys as Konica, Forte, and other left the market and orphaned rolls glutted the market, I recall buying color film at the Dollar Stores for .79 a roll.

From a historical perceptive photography is still very affordable, not as cheap as was just 5 or 6 years ago, if this was 1952 I could not afford $83.00 for a box of 25 sheets of 4X5 or $800 for a basic camera. Going the other direction a roll of Forma 120 would have cost .32 in 1952.

When in College in the late 60's and shooting for the school paper my prof always said "Film does grow on trees, we have a budget, pick your shots wisely."

TenSpeed · Jun 8, 2015

i think i might buy a 5 pack of trix400 since its only $25 on amazon prime

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 8, 2015

PDH said:
When in College in the late 60's and shooting for the school paper my prof always said "Film does grow on trees, we have a budget, pick your shots wisely."

In my summer between 4th and 5th grades (1973) I went to a sleep-away camp in the Pocono mountains in New York. We used to hog the orange juice at the drink counter in the camp cafeteria and this one counselor used to yell at us, "Hey! Don't drink so much juice! That stuff don't grow on trees you know!", we'd all yell back, "Yes it does!"....

DREW WILEY · Jun 8, 2015

I've got a simple cure for people who complain about the cost of 120 film: shoot 8x10 for awhile. But as far as summer camp beverages go,
I can still remember how awful the watered-down hot chocolate tasted at breakfast.

Rick A · Jun 8, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
I've got a simple cure for people who complain about the cost of 120 film: shoot 8x10 for awhile. But as far as summer camp beverages go,
I can still remember how awful the watered-down hot chocolate tasted at breakfast.

Try 11x14 or other ULF size for price.

Richard S. (rich815) · Jun 8, 2015

You think that Toyota is expensive you should see how much a brand new 18-wheeler Kenworth costs!

Who cares? I'm looking at Toyotas.

kb3lms · Jun 8, 2015

You sure? Even with inflation taken into account? What did a roll of Tri-X cost in 1975, for example?

I don't know about Tri-X in 75, but I distinctly recall buying a 10-roll brick of Ektachrome 200, 36 exposure in 1982 or 1983 and paying $54.00. So figuring in sales tax, that was around $5 per roll at a local camera store that wasn't so cheap but always had a good selection and fresh film.

Given that Velvia 50 is around $11 per 36 exp roll today, today's prices aren't that bad. Of course, we can't directly compare to an Ektachrome price today but I would guess it would be about the same as Velvia if you could get it.

However, I am far too cheap to pay $11 a roll for Velvia. My wife and I have this running discussion of whether $20 is a lot of money in 2015.

DREW WILEY · Jun 8, 2015

The cheapest film is the one that works for what you intended it for. What is expensive is wasting a bunch of printing paper that doesn't match
the characteristics of the film well to begin with.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 8, 2015

michr said:
I regularly buy 120 size Ultrafine Xtreme 100 through Ultrafine's eBay store in packs of 10. It's a bit less than $4 a roll. I've never had an issue with the film counter numbers printing through on this particular variety.

I'm always looking for cheaper options. Other posters mentioned getting film direct from Hong Kong for far less. Is there a web store based in Hong Kong that you buy from?

For the original poster, have you considered that if $4 is too expensive for film to put through your camera, you might just need to shell out $40 and buy a better one. There are plenty of 120 folders out there with a full range of shutter speeds.

Sigh. Did I say $4+ is too much a burden to bear? No, I did not. My point was stated to be, that all the options I could find wound up being in a very narrow range of $4-$4.80; ten rolls plus shipping, three different brands from five merchants.

The Ultrabright price does not include shipping, which, again, unless you are going to buy it in their store, you need to pay for.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 8, 2015

Roger Cole said:
Well you set the conditions of the comparison to be sure there aren't any bargains, then declare there aren't any bargains. My suggestions were ways to make film more affordable - bundle purchases, or buy the films with free shipping from the New York suppliers. Freestyle is usually NOT the least expensive for anything except their house brands. But they have a huge selection and will ship chemicals hard to get shipped elsewhere. If you can bundle film with that it makes sense. Otherwise you buy where it's least expensive.

I agree there aren't any raving bargains. But I don't think there are any real rip offs (other than sheet film) either. Roll film seems to me pretty fairly priced. E6 is something of an exception but also not what we are talking about here.

Roger, I don't want to get into a pissing contest of semantics and expectations here, but how did I exclude bargains floating around out there? What films? What merchants? And my real point, see the first line of the text body was that all of the readily available options I know about fall into the $4-$4.80/roll range.

gzinsel · Jun 8, 2015

well, if you live in the U.S. here is something to consider. Because of the strong dollar, buy from Europe. Right now the Euro is 1.13 to 1 USD. you also do not have to pay the 19% vat tax. So Macodirect has superman 200( actual 100 or 125) for 3.16 Euro, with adjustment that comes to 3.57 USD a roll. for 25. Euros you get up o 2 kilo of shipping. thats 4.4 lbs. If you buy enough and keep it just under the 2 kilo package. I think you will squeak by under 4.00 a roll.

mwdake · Jun 8, 2015

Sigh. Did I say $4+ is too much a burden to bear? No, I did not. My point was stated to be, that all the options I could find wound up being in a very narrow range of $4-$4.80; ten rolls plus shipping, three different brands from five merchants.

When I first saw this post, and just reading its title, the first thing that popped in to my head was...
He is talking about how a few years ago you could get Acros 120 for $2.69 a roll at the big NY online stores; whereas, the other big name films in 120 where all around the $4 mark.

That to me was the type of bargain I thought the OP was meaning.

Roger Cole · Jun 8, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
Roger, I don't want to get into a pissing contest of semantics and expectations here, but how did I exclude bargains floating around out there? What films? What merchants? And my real point, see the first line of the text body was that all of the readily available options I know about fall into the $4-$4.80/roll range.

I wasn't saying you were overlooking some cheap film. I was suggesting you save on those shipping costs by bundling with other orders. I would have suggested you also save by buying more film at once too, but that would have probably set you off as well.

Funny, I thought by posting about it you were encouraging discussion around the topic. I see I was mistaken.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 8, 2015

gzinsel said:
well, if you live in the U.S. here is something to consider. Because of the strong dollar, buy from Europe. Right now the Euro is 1.13 to 1 USD. you also do not have to pay the 19% vat tax. So Macodirect has superman 200( actual 100 or 125) for 3.16 Euro, with adjustment that comes to 3.57 USD a roll. for 25. Euros you get up o 2 kilo of shipping. thats 4.4 lbs. If you buy enough and keep it just under the 2 kilo package. I think you will squeak by under 4.00 a roll.

That's interesting, and I'm sure for some big users, an option to consider. I don't shoot enough 120 to forgo the convenience of buying here.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 8, 2015

mwdake said:
When I first saw this post, and just reading its title, the first thing that popped in to my head was...
He is talking about how a few years ago you could get Acros 120 for $2.69 a roll at the big NY online stores; whereas, the other big name films in 120 where all around the $4 mark.

That to me was the type of bargain I thought the OP was meaning.

As I've never been a big 120 shooter, I never knew about that Acros. Sure was a heck of a deal!

Paul Verizzo · Jun 8, 2015

Roger Cole said:
I wasn't saying you were overlooking some cheap film. I was suggesting you save on those shipping costs by bundling with other orders. I would have suggested you also save by buying more film at once too, but that would have probably set you off as well.

Funny, I thought by posting about it you were encouraging discussion around the topic. I see I was mistaken.

My criteria was laid out. A perhaps average user buying ten rolls of film, nothing else. I'm sure more savings are to be had by buying 100 or a thousand rolls.

Sirius Glass · Jun 8, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
As I've never been a big 120 shooter, I never knew about that Acros. Sure was a heck of a deal!

Are you saying that using 120 film will make the photographer [shooter] larger? I could use the extra height but not the weight.

Nodda Duma · Jun 8, 2015

Paul I think you were missing his point in that you have to think outside the box to get film for cheap. Those of us who aren't what would be considered wealthy become pretty resourceful at finding ways *not* to pay full retail. That is, by the way, not a new phenomenon nor is it exclusive to film photography.

You don't sound like you're interested in picking up that sort of advice.

summicron1 · Jun 8, 2015

you guys need to stick to good film and to hell with the price -- really, what makes the final image is all that counts. In my case fuji acros from Adorama is the best quality/price, grain so fine the damn grain focuser doesn't work, and when you buy more than $50 they pay the postage.

cheap enuf not to sweat the $1 a roll difference, says I.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 9, 2015

Nodda Duma said:
Paul I think you were missing his point in that you have to think outside the box to get film for cheap. Those of us who aren't what would be considered wealthy become pretty resourceful at finding ways *not* to pay full retail. That is, by the way, not a new phenomenon nor is it exclusive to film photography.

You don't sound like you're interested in picking up that sort of advice.

I audibly sighed reading this. No, I am most certainly not missing the point, because I created the point: Ten rolls of film delivered to my door here in the USA. Not with other products purchased at the same time. From the only sources I know of. Quite open to brand, but I only found Ultrafine, Arista.edu, and FP4 at the lower prices. Yes, there are more expensive options like T-Max, and, oh, what the hell, let's throw color in, too.

My point, quite well stated I erroneously thought, was that all options fell into a narrow price range, $4-$4.80. And by buying 12 instead of 10 rolls, the highest became mid-range, $4.41. For Ilford and not virtually generic of unknown origin (Ultrafine.)

There have been intimations of deals with Shanghai, but no one has stepped up and sourced it here in the USA. And considering the comments suggesting problems with expiration date emulsion collapse and paper backing imprinting, why would I want to save a few shekels?

So, I'm perfectly open to some additional information and sources. I don't claim to know everything. And, BTW, I'm probably one of the poorest APUG'ers around. I live on a not full bucket Social Security only. And I have a long life history of being niggardly. (Look it up if you think I'm being a racist.)

Paul Verizzo · Jun 9, 2015

summicron1 said:
you guys need to stick to good film and to hell with the price -- really, what makes the final image is all that counts. In my case fuji acros from Adorama is the best quality/price, grain so fine the damn grain focuser doesn't work, and when you buy more than $50 they pay the postage.

cheap enuf not to sweat the $1 a roll difference, says I.

Exactly. And it's only $49, not $50! Whoopee.........

No bargains in 120 ISO 100 film!

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