nitrile gloves ruined development?

MikeM1977 · Jun 26, 2006

I process my 4x5" sheet film in trays. I usually use latex gloves and developed in HC110.

Today I tried out Pyrocat (I've used it before w/ roll film), so I decided to pick up some disposable nitrile gloves.

In the past, I've always touched the sheets here and there when handling them in the trays. Never been a major problem.

All of the sheets I processed in Pyrocat with the blue nitrile gloves were ruined because it seems that every time I touched a sheet with the glove, it left a mark.

Any other experiences to corroborate my theory that these nitrile gloves are responsible for the marks? I can't imagine it is the Pyrocat developer.

unregistered · Jun 26, 2006

I'd say they are. I've used latex in pyro with no problems, but 1 thing I do before I touch the emulsion of the film is to get the glove/finger tips wet with developer first. I've had latex leave marks on film in a wide variety of developers and even on lith prints. But if I get them wet with dev first, I never have any problems. The latex have been with the powder on them and maybe that has something to do with it.

c6h6o3 · Jun 26, 2006

Inconceivable. I've developed hundreds of sheets of Bergger BPF 200, JandC Classic 200, HP5+, Tri-x, 400TMax, Efke PL100 and FP4+ in ABC Pyro, 510 Pyro and Pyrocat HD and have never had a problem with marks from gloves. I've scratched a good many, but that has nothing to do with the gloves.

Since nitrile gloves have no powder on them we can rule that out. Are you presoaking the sheets in water before putting them into the developer?

mark · Jun 26, 2006

Never had a problem with Nitrile. that is all I have ever used when processing, and i only develope in PyroCat-HD these days. Strange.

unregistered · Jun 26, 2006

"Since nitrile gloves have no powder on them"

Some do.

Peter Schrager · Jun 26, 2006

Nitrile

Actually use of the gloves should increase your ability to handle and make good negatives. Maybe you got them from the bargain bin? Should actually leave less marks on the film...
Peter

skahde · Jun 26, 2006

One simple trick is to gently wash your hands with the gloves on using a mild detergent before developing any film with them.
This will remove any debris that might leave marks on the film.

Stefan

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 26, 2006

I haven't had any problem with nitrile gloves either in ABC pyro, RAF pyro-metol, D-76, Acufine, those being the developers I've used recently. Have you ruled out the possibility of cross contamination? Might you have accidentally touched the fixer tray before handling the negatives?

Willie Jan · Jun 26, 2006

last weekend i was making internegatives and use latex gloves too.
On some of them there were also marks.

before that i used iron tongs to get paper out of the tray and i had there also marks of the tongs!

So what i believe now is that it has to do with anti-static reaction of your body because we walk through the darkroom. Probably when you put on a sweater and rub your hand against it and afterwards hold the neg, it will also leave a mark.

I hope somebody knows how to deal with this (plastic tongs?)

unregistered · Jun 26, 2006

Its an interesting thread because I have had this come up very sporatically on sheet film, and constantly on Ektalure developed in Lith dev. and I always assumed it was from whatever that powder is. It certainly isn't static...at least not for me. But it never happens if I dip, and rub, my fingers in the dev. before anything is touched, which again led me to believe it was the powder.

MikeM1977 · Jun 26, 2006

c6h6o3 said:
Inconceivable. I've developed hundreds of sheets of Bergger BPF 200, JandC Classic 200, HP5+, Tri-x, 400TMax, Efke PL100 and FP4+ in ABC Pyro, 510 Pyro and Pyrocat HD and have never had a problem with marks from gloves. I've scratched a good many, but that has nothing to do with the gloves.

Since nitrile gloves have no powder on them we can rule that out. Are you presoaking the sheets in water before putting them into the developer?

I pre-soak for a minute or two.

Some marks on the negatives are an imprint of the slight texture on the nitrile gloves. And the nitrile gloves came from Harbor Freight Supply, which is pretty much an entire bargain bin store.

I wear a glove on the right hand for handling in trays. I keep my left hand glove free to move negatives from sheet film holders to the pre-soak bath.

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 26, 2006

I've been handling film with Nitrile Gloves for a long time with no problems. I do rinse them off in water before handling wet film.

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 26, 2006

I should add that I presoak my sheet film in water.

GeorgesGiralt · Jun 27, 2006

Hi !
Nitrile gloves are not the culprit here.
The culprit is ....... your fingers.
Your fingers are well above the 20 °C your tray content is. And this cause an increase of dev. activity at the point where you put your finger. Ansel Adams advise to soak your hand in a bucket of fresh water before touching the sheets to prevent this. (even doing this I can't have no marks on my sheets, this is why I've given up on tray processing, and use a hand held Jobo drum ala Paterson tank)
Hope this helps !

joneil · Jun 27, 2006

While the point about heat from your fingers is and excellent point, do not rule out the gloves 100%.

I've been using gloves - latex and later nitrile - for over 25 years now, and I've seen an incredible range of quality in these gloves over the years, from many different manufacturers.

Sometimes you'll be using the same brand & model number of glove for a few years, then all of a sudden, the darned things are no good, quailty totally different and changed. Then you find out after the fact that that your supplier switched contracts and now gets their gloves outsourced from a different plant / factory than used to be used before. Or they alter the formula to be more enviromentally sensitive, or a million other possibilities.

Anyhow, point is, I've seen it happen many times. Heat from your fingers will do weird things to a negative, but gloves can be problematic as well.

One of several reasons I gave up on tray development and bought a Jobo tank.

joe

Willie Jan · Jun 27, 2006

GeorgesGiralt said:
Hi !
Nitrile gloves are not the culprit here.
The culprit is ....... your fingers.
Your fingers are well above the 20 °C your tray content is. And this cause an increase of dev. activity at the point where you put your finger. Ansel Adams advise to soak your hand in a bucket of fresh water before touching the sheets to prevent this. (even doing this I can't have no marks on my sheets, this is why I've given up on tray processing, and use a hand held Jobo drum ala Paterson tank)
Hope this helps !

how is it possible than that a tong that lies in the tray which i use to get the paper out of it to put it into the stopbath tray sometimes has the same problem with a mark of the tong? Yhe tong has an rubber end, you actually can see the marks of the tong.

For the Neg:
Besides that the mark is visible i also see the mark going into the negative from the side towards the middle, getting smaller when it goes further....

clay · Jun 27, 2006

I have noticed that film emulsions seem to be a bit softer after using pyrocat than with a developer such as D-76 1:1. My thought is that the relatively high pH of pyrocat may cause the gelatin to swell a little more than with some lower pH developers. Just an idle thought based on no data at all, only an anecdotally based hunch. Take with some grains of salt.

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 27, 2006

Pyrocat is a tanning developer, so it hardens the emulsion a bit.

The Sulfite levels in D-76 (100 grams/liter in D-76 stock) should prevent it (i.e the Metol and Hydroquinone) from tanning and staining the emulsion. Emulsion swelling due to the alkaline nature of both these the developers or the fixer is still a possibility.

unregistered · Jun 27, 2006

GeorgesGiralt said:
Hi !
Nitrile gloves are not the culprit here.
The culprit is ....... your fingers.
Your fingers are well above the 20 °C your tray content is. And this cause an increase of dev. activity at the point where you put your finger. Ansel Adams advise to soak your hand in a bucket of fresh water before touching the sheets to prevent this. (even doing this I can't have no marks on my sheets, this is why I've given up on tray processing, and use a hand held Jobo drum ala Paterson tank)
Hope this helps !

Oi Vei!

The amount of time that your finger stays 98.6 degrees, and the area of the film rising above 68 degrees, after inserted into the dev., is miniscule and would not add any density to the development of the neg. If it did, and since you have to push all the sheets into the dev. constantly and quickly (especially in the beginning), it would be impossible to do tray processing. Of the 20,000 or so 4x5 and 8x10 sheets of film I have hand processed in my career, the problem I described happened about .0015%, if that. Dipping my latex glove covered fingertips into the dev. and rubbing them for a few seconds fixed the problem.

unregistered · Jun 27, 2006

Willie Jan said:
how is it possible than that a tong that lies in the tray which i use to get the paper out of it to put it into the stopbath tray sometimes has the same problem with a mark of the tong? Yhe tong has an rubber end, you actually can see the marks of the tong.

This is caused by developer dirty tongs. What that means is is that there is a build up of developer and any other by products of the development process. Scrubbing them with a rough sponge will get rid of that.

For the Neg:
Besides that the mark is visible i also see the mark going into the negative from the side towards the middle, getting smaller when it goes further....

This would indicate some type of drag...either developer or a chemical contamination of some sort. You haven't been specific if the mark is positive density or not. And when you say "going into the negative", do you mean you also see it where there is no exposure on the edge, i.e. the rebate edge?

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 27, 2006

If you're getting the texture of the glove on the film, that's a sign of contamination of some sort. Either there is some kind of oil on this particular brand of gloves or it's fixer.

nitrile gloves ruined development?

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