NIKOR versus KINDERMANN versus LPL stainless steel tanks

[Samuel Dilworth]

I’ve searched and read but still have questions. And isn’t it nice to talk about these beautiful objects?

Nikor
How necessary would you say the quick-pour cover is for the single-120 / double-135 size tank or indeed others?

I see that some early Nikors with the off-centre dividing wall in the mouth are not blackened in that area, unlike quick-pour models. Does this harm the light-tightness at all? I develop in the kitchen facing a window over the sink. The sun sometimes shines.

By the way, when did Nikor stop making tanks or go out of business?

Kindermann
Filler caps went from black plastic to yellow plastic to grey plastic over the years, if I understand correctly. Any difference in the pour rates of their respective covers?

LPL
The dark horse, but Japanese and maybe good quality. Originally these had steel covers like Nikor. These had a little welded tab on the filler cap to aid removal (I’ve seen these tabs broken off). Then LPL went to a plastic cover like Kindermann. Do either of these tanks compare favourably to Nikor or Kindermann? They’re sometimes cheaper on the used market.

Any other remarks or recommendations welcome.

 

[RedSun]

I would not want to spend this much time like to do research on small film tank. Almost the same. Be careful about the capacity since some people do diluted developer.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

Well, I enjoy the research and will keep these tanks for decades probably. May as well get something that pleases me.

 

[RedSun]

You ask people to do research for you to please you?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

35mm/120 SS tanks are generally the same size, so you can get the most recent type of plastic Kindermann lids, which pour quickly, and use them on Nikor or Kindermann tanks. Not sure about LPL, but probably. I have several tanks of different makes and sizes and all can use modern Kindermann lids.

There are 220 reels that fit in a 120 tank, but be aware that there are also 220 reels with thicker wire that take a larger tank, which I think is the same diameter as the Nikor sheet film tank.

Kindermann also made a film washing tank, which is slightly larger than a processing tank. It has a metal tube with a cross-shaped metal piece at the bottom to hold 8 35mm reels, and there's a hose fitting that screws onto the top after you put on your reels and get ready to wash. It has a flat metal dust cap. I mention this, in case you find you have a flat lid that's to big for any SS tank or if you have a tank that's too big for any lightproof pouring cap, then you have parts for the film washer.

 

[PGillin]

I have used all the brands you mentioned for 35mm and haven't found any substantial quality differences. Most of my reels right now are LPL, and I have an LPL and a Nikor 4-reel tank. Both are good, I just have to be careful not to confuse the caps for the lids themselves, as the LPL one will stick on the Nikor and the Nikor will not seat tightly on the LPL. The lids can be swapped between tanks with no apparent issues.

I have also used, but not owned, Kinderman reels. Some issues with those, but that's more than likely due to the treatment shared equipment in a communal darkroom gets. The lids fit my tanks FWIW, but I found the black plastic ones not as good as the quick-pour design.

The very best reels are Hewes. Expensive, but excellent. I always load those first and will use only Hewes when workload permits. The rest are good, certainly better than the cheap stainless reels sold new now or the thinner-gauge, less precise reels you might see in a university darkroom, but the Hewes are superior.

 

[Alan9940]

I bought all my stainless tanks so long ago I can't remember their brand, but, over the years, I've found that I can pour chemistry in/out of the stainless tanks with plastic lids faster than the all stainless tanks.The mouth of the plastic lids is larger so, I guess, a faster pour makes sense. Hewes reels is all I've ever used.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

I’m already convinced by the Hewes reels and use those, but they will work with most tanks if I understand correctly (although I’ve read a singular comment claiming that two Hewes 35 mm reels are taller than two Nikor reels and too tall for a particular Nikor medium-format tank, leaving no space between the top of the reels and top of the tank. And David above reminds us of the wider 220 tanks).

I like the idea of an entirely steel tank like the old Nikors that might last forever without cracking. And since they were once widely used, they must have poured fast enough for most purposes. But many commentators on the web prefer the newer plastic covers.

Maybe there is no shortcut to trying them all. Unfortunately the Nikor tanks are much cheaper and more available in North America than France where I live.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

All stainless is durable, but I’ve found the stainless lids can leak if they don’t fit properly, and they can be hard to remove when wet if they do fit properly, necessitating violent methods for removal, and causing damage that may result in leakage.

 

[reddesert]

IMO the main difference between types of stainless steel reels and tanks is whether they are dented or not. The un-dented ones are better, and all pretty good.

I found pouring chemicals in through the stainless lids to be slow, and the plastic lids to be also slow, just less. For this reason, I would pre-fill the tank with developer, and put it into my changing bag on a small tray to catch spills. Then I load the reels and plop them into the tank with developer and close the lid. It pours out quickly enough. Pouring the stop in is a little slow, but by then the timing is less critical and I'm not so much worried about unevenness, as long as I can get stop to touch all of the film.

 

[John Koehrer]

I've used Nikor and Kindermann for years. Prefer the Kindermann for the plastic lid & less leakage than Nikor.
Also a fan of Hewes reels.

 

[mshchem]

I've used them all. The Nikor tanks and lids are indestructible but they all leak. Kindermann tanks and lids are very nice, Kindermann reels have the little ear to use for spinning the reel while using their loader.
Nikor was bought by Honeywell, early 70's Nikor lids and caps were produced in Japan, these are the "Professional" labeled boxes. The lid had a larger faster filling opening. These are great tanks.
Kindermann also made tanks for Beseler. I've had the Kindermann plastic lids crack, on old tanks. Still the Kindermann tanks with Hewes reels are hard to beat.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

I would pre-fill the tank with developer, and put it into my changing bag on a small tray to catch spills. Then I load the reels and plop them into the tank with developer and close the lid.

I could probably do that with more ease because I load film in an internal bathroom so have plenty of space to work (and a shower to collect spills).

Kindermann reels have the little ear to use for spinning the reel while using their loader.

So that’s what that’s for. I’ve wondered.

Thanks for the comments, all.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

Did the four-135 / two-120 tanks always come with lift rods?

 

[mshchem]

Did the four-135 / two-120 tanks always come with lift rods?

They did originally.

 

[Trask]

All stainless is durable, but I’ve found the stainless lids can leak if they don’t fit properly, and they can be hard to remove when wet if they do fit properly, necessitating violent methods for removal, and causing damage that may result in leakage.

+1

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use the Hewes reels and the whatever-brand-that-FreeStyle-has stainless steel tanks. Nikor tanks have metal lids and the FreeStyle have plastic lids.

 

[mshchem]

All stainless is durable, but I’ve found the stainless lids can leak if they don’t fit properly, and they can be hard to remove when wet if they do fit properly, necessitating violent methods for removal, and causing damage that may result in leakage.

Important point! If you need to heat the lid with a torch to get it loose, plastic is better

Growing up with Nikor and Paterson tanks, I just thought all tanks leaked, and SS lids stuck.

 

[David Reynolds]

This discussion prompted me to go and check my storage which contains my disassembled darkroom equipment. It has been almost eight years since I moved and had to store it. I used kindermann ss tanks with plastic lids for both 35mm and 120mm. I found the lids totally cracked and split making them unusable . They were fine when I stored them. Can one replace the lids (buy new ones) or do I have to buy new units? I may want to return to film development one day and this will be a major obstacle.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

Can one replace the lids (buy new ones) or do I have to buy new units?

The covers and even the pour caps alone used to be available as spare parts (for example at B&H). But Kindermann stopped making these tanks years ago and your chances of finding a shop with stock is close to zero. Since these are desirable items, you can be assured many people before you have scoured the web for all online sources. There may be the odd new tank still available in a forgotten independent photo store in the middle of nowhere.

So you can’t buy complete tanks new either. Naturally there are scalpers on eBay if you’re really keen (eBay item number 223750830158).

I went as far as to drop a note to Kindermann the other day to encourage them to renew production, mentioning the eBay prices and Kodak’s doubling of film sales in the last five years. I’m not holding my breath.

 

[KenS]

Any other remarks or recommendations welcome.[/QUOTE]

In days of yore (BEFORE I went ALL large format) when I was using Kinderman tanks for 120 and/or the occasional 35mm film, I would add the REQUIRED volume of developer to the tank with the "lights" on then putting the loaded reel(s) into the tank "with the lights OFF and putting the 'top' back . before the room light was turned you then have a slightly 'more accurate development' time.

You may find this method a 'LOT" easier, should you decide to 'try it'

Ken

 

[reddesert]

Freestyle sells the plastic lid and cap for steel tanks as a replacement item. These are for their Arista house brand of stainless steel tanks, but I think they will fit other tanks. They only cost US $5, so if you order from Freestyle you can add one to your order to check. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/161816-Arista-Tank-PVC-Replacement-Top

Edit to add: B&H also sells replacement plastic lids "for all tanks." https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122992-REG/Samigon_ESA359_Plastic_Cover_for_all.html

 

[eli griggs]

I like the plastic lids as well, but I've always used electrical tape on the steel lids so leaking is a non-issue for me and i recommend it to others using metal lids to do so.

Harbor Freight sells a good quality electrical tap in packs for a ridiculously low price, but almost any brand will serve.

The only issue I've ever had with the metal tank lids is the spout cap, being 'frozen in place' but I keep an old fashion bottle/can opener on a string, hanging off my sink's wood frame, at the far left (station one) so it's usually a matter of only a few seconds to pop it off.

IF you still know which metal cap goes to which lid, I suggest you mark both cap and lid, and tank if you've not mixed them up yet, or only have the one, so you do no need to be mindful all the time of what goes to what, which can make a difference.

I have a slight bias for the Kindderman reels, but all will do, so long as they are no off angle.

To prevent this, take a long block of wood, a 2" x 4" will be fine, cut it into a thick wedge, that will just slid into the rays of the outer reel, and then cut out the section in the middle between the lines of a square reel, so it that it only makes contact on the two outsides of the reel, and can be rotated around the outer reel one wedge at a time, pushing down any up angles that allow the film to misfeed or skip into the wrong track of the reel.


Make a second thick block of wood, the width of the reel plus an inch or so, square is fine, that almost will reach the center reel assembly, but does no touch any part of it, so angles pressed too far down will be forced up as the block circumnavigates the inner reel, raising too low sections back to square,

it may take several cross checks, or a day or two with the inner outer block in place, to raise or lower the reel surface, but at the least, you will have the option of readjusting your reels, instead of trashing them when they are so out of square.

If I can, I'll post pics latter, to this post, so there is no confusion.

IMO.

 

[Samuel Dilworth]

A friend learned of my search for steel tanks and gave me a new old stock Honeywell Nikor Q08 (Q = quick-fill, 08 = 8 US fl oz capacity).

It’s a perfect time capsule from an unknown year in the past, so I took some pictures before using it.

An interesting feature of the reel is that, unlike other Nikor reels I’ve seen, it has Hewes-like tines for hooking the film in place by the sprocket holes. It even has an additional single tine for attaching an uncut film leader (see method in the instructions sheet).

The tank base that I forgot to photograph has “HONEYWELL NIKOR MADE IN JAPAN” in a circular inscription.

That will take care of single 35 mm rolls I wish to develop immediately, and in some style.

There remains the batch-development tank. I’m leaning toward a used one-litre Kindermann for that.

 

[guangong]

I bought all my steel developing tanks over 50 yrs ago in a variety of makes, some with steel lids and some with rubber. Never noticed any difference in practical use.
The preferred method of using steel tanks is to immerse reels into developer in darkroom and carry out rest of developing process in dark, so no pouring in chemicals in and out through lid. ? I have never tried this myself, but always got good results with usual daylight method of pouring through hole in lid.