NIKON USERS READ

removed account4 · Jan 30, 2012

if you use a nikon camera
you might want to read and sign
this petition ...

Dead Link Removed

guitstik · Jan 30, 2012

Thanks John, but I don't think that this includes older models like my F or even my FE. I did sign the petition because I do believe they need to continue supplying parts to independent repairs facilities no matter.

removed-user-1 · Jan 30, 2012

Like guitstik, I doubt my F3 is included in this. However, I signed it simply because I believe users should be able to get their cameras serviced wherever, just like cars or computers. If Nikon wants to say "use our repair centers or you void your warranty," I suppose I could live with that. But simply stopping the supply of parts is an asinine move. If Honda decided that my wife had to get her Civic serviced at the dealer, no ifs ands or buts, she'd promptly find another make of car. Same goes for Nikon. I have been thinking about getting a new Nikon DSLR, but I may have to take a look at Canon or another manufacturer if Nikon makes good on this threat.

pentaxuser · Jan 30, 2012

Does this restriction only apply to the U.S. or are other countries' independent repairers involved? The petition seems to be aimed at U.S. Nikon users which raises the question of whether a signature from a user in another country would even be counted or might even devalue the petition.

It is a stupid policy that Nikon appears to want to follow. Not sure what the law is in the U.S. on servicing and warranty but the legal consensus in the U.K. is that in the case of vehicle warranty for instance, it is not invalidated by independent repairers unless it can be shown by the manufacturer that the parts used were substandard or the repair was incompetently handled.

pentaxuser

benjiboy · Jan 30, 2012

This practice isn't unique to Nikon, it's quite common with photographic equipment manufacturers if other than registered repairers try to buy spares from them regardless if they are companys or individuals , and the practice isn't just confined to the photographic trade .

Aristophanes · Jan 30, 2012

pentaxuser said:
Does this restriction only apply to the U.S. or are other countries' independent repairers involved? The petition seems to be aimed at U.S. Nikon users which raises the question of whether a signature from a user in another country would even be counted or might even devalue the petition.r

You would try the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and perhaps some state legislation (California, New York most likely). This is for the US.

I believe there are existing agreements among state regulators and major automobile manufacturers allowing for the sourcing of parts at wholesale cost to independent repair persons. This was done as pre-emptive to anti-competition regulations. Not all suppliers buy in, mostly the very high-end companies have their own systems (try generally sourcing a Ferrari part). I know of no such legal construct for cameras. Probably not a large enough market or imbalance created to move the political regulatory needle.

What Nikon is doing is quite common. Preferred and/or qualified sales or support agreements are actually the norm, not the exception.

CGW · Jan 30, 2012

With the exception of the FM-10 and F6 and F100 and F5, Nikon.ca won't service older film cameras due to parts unavailability.Not sure I'd want anyone else putzing with a D300 but Nikon service. This leaves me wondering what the point of this is. The charge that Nikon service is routinely farmed out(to Mexico???)isn't exactly well-documented. Camera repair isn't exactly a robust business in Canada.

fstop · Jan 30, 2012

DON"T SIGN THAT

if you are concerned contact Nikon directly.

dehk · Jan 30, 2012

Oh screw that, I like calling Nikon's parts department to get parts.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 30, 2012

Though I am not a Nikon user, nor a USA resident, I have read the petition and find it particularly disturbing. Is it confined to the USA, either at this time, or globally being the next step? I note from the petition that Canon has never had a policy like this. I think a bit of desk-thumping would be in order or otherwise an investigation into Nikon's trade practice; the whole thing doesn't really resonate well at all.

Sirius Glass · Jan 30, 2012

I signed it.

fstop · Jan 30, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
Though I am not a Nikon user, nor a USA resident, I have read the petition and find it particularly disturbing. Is it confined to the USA, either at this time, or globally being the next step? I note from the petition that Canon has never had a policy like this. I think a bit of desk-thumping would be in order or otherwise an investigation into Nikon's trade practice; the whole thing doesn't really resonate well at all.

The issue is with change.org not the petition itself.

CGW · Jan 30, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
Though I am not a Nikon user, nor a USA resident, I have read the petition and find it particularly disturbing. Is it confined to the USA, either at this time, or globally being the next step? I note from the petition that Canon has never had a policy like this. I think a bit of desk-thumping would be in order or otherwise an investigation into Nikon's trade practice; the whole thing doesn't really resonate well at all.

Nikon is all but done with film cameras, so what parts can still be available aside from the ones I mentioned above? If we're talking DSLRs, which among those is no longer supported? If anything, the plunge in film camera prices is hurting repairmen more than parts supplies. Why repair when you can replace for less?

E. von Hoegh · Jan 31, 2012

In the early 90s, a friend who was then a local pro sent a Nikkor O 35/2 pre AI lens to Nikon for service. The auto diaphragm was jammed. Lens came back with a note reading "We no longer service lenses this old". He gave me the lens. The diaphragm was jammed by a small screw that had loosened; I repaired and relubed the lens and have been using it since. Another instance with an F2 body, belonged to a friend and needed a minor repair which Nikon wouldn't perform. Neither of these items needed parts.

I'll get my needed spares by cannibalising junkers, I've never had any confidence in Nikon's service dept..

CGW · Jan 31, 2012

E. von Hoegh said:
In the early 90s, a friend who was then a local pro sent a Nikkor O 35/2 pre AI lens to Nikon for service. The auto diaphragm was jammed. Lens came back with a note reading "We no longer service lenses this old". He gave me the lens. The diaphragm was jammed by a small screw that had loosened; I repaired and relubed the lens and have been using it since. Another instance with an F2 body, belonged to a friend and needed a minor repair which Nikon wouldn't perform. Neither of these items needed parts.

I'll get my needed spares by cannibalising junkers, I've never had any confidence in Nikon's service dept..

I'm sympathetic to Nikon.ca's face-saving ploy of declining service to older lenses and bodies due to parts issues.Too many cheapskates--the majority of those looking for service on old gear here--expect the earth for absurdly-low prices or even reject an agreed-upon price and try to cut a deal on pick-up. The Nikon techs got tired of the BS and just asked that no more old stuff be accepted. It was a trickle anyway and cost them nothing. Several Nikon-only shops picked-up the slack. Do you really expect your local Toyota dealer to offer parts and service on '71 Corolla? No more than I'd expect a CLA on an F2 from Nikon.ca.

Chan Tran · Jan 31, 2012

the issue mostly involves digital cameras as our film cameras are too old any way and can't blame Nikon for not servicing our F, F2 etc.. But I do understand that with the digital, software is always needed to do service correctly (even newer film camera like F5, F6 would need specialized software for a simple calibration) and if Nikon doesn't want to sell these software then an independent shop would have difficulty servicing those cameras. Selling those software, it's difficult to control and make sure no illegal copies will be made. Because so few copies are needed the cost of these software is very high.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 31, 2012

CGW said:
I'm sympathetic to Nikon.ca's face-saving ploy of declining service to older lenses and bodies due to parts issues.Too many cheapskates--the majority of those looking for service on old gear here--expect the earth for absurdly-low prices or even reject an agreed-upon price and try to cut a deal on pick-up. The Nikon techs got tired of the BS and just asked that no more old stuff be accepted. It was a trickle anyway and cost them nothing. Several Nikon-only shops picked-up the slack. Do you really expect your local Toyota dealer to offer parts and service on '71 Corolla? No more than I'd expect a CLA on an F2 from Nikon.ca.

You did notice that my post referred to events that happened 20~ years ago, right?

tkamiya · Jan 31, 2012

Nikon being a corporation and it is a for profit organization, I'd imagine the only way to make them change their mind is if anything we do actually affects their earnings or else being forced to change by law. We can sign all the petitions we want but until we start to speak by spending, such as not buying their cameras and lenses, there is no intensive for Nikon to change its mind. I doubt sufficient number of people will stop buying Nikon gears to make sufficient difference.

I don't know for sure, but doesn't automotive industry have a federal law requiring manufacturers to supply parts to indy repair shops? Perhaps that's a better way to approach this. Petition for legislative change.

This kind of practice isn't limited to Nikon. Some of the higher end companies are much worse. For example, Rolex won't sell anyone parts. Not only that, if they find the watches they receive for repair has been altered by a third party - even if it contained genuine parts like dials, they'll change it back to how the piece left the factory before they'd start the repair. If it contained any non-genuine parts, it will redo all the repairs before they'd do theirs. Yet, they do very well selling their pieces. Third party repair shops are plentiful too - despite these restrictions.

CGW · Jan 31, 2012

E. von Hoegh said:
You did notice that my post referred to events that happened 20~ years ago, right?

Sure did but also know people still expect Nikon to cater to Nixon-era relics. The petition is tangential to this. The service life of most DSLRs isn't that long. Is a D70 worth fixing relative to the price of low-actuation used replacement?

Brian C. Miller · Jan 31, 2012

CGW said:
Do you really expect your local Toyota dealer to offer parts and service on '71 Corolla?

Actually, Honda has a huge inventory of parts for old bikes. When I was getting some parts for my bike, I spoke with a fellow who was riding a vintage mid-60s bike, and he said that the local service department ordered them from Japan. Yes, he had to wait for the part to come in, but that's expected.

CGW · Jan 31, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
Actually, Honda has a huge inventory of parts for old bikes. When I was getting some parts for my bike, I spoke with a fellow who was riding a vintage mid-60s bike, and he said that the local service department ordered them from Japan. Yes, he had to wait for the part to come in, but that's expected.

Didn't have that experience helping to restore a CBX a few years back. It was strictly lucky finds of pricey NOS bits and variously priced used stuff. Nothing at all through Honda.

benjiboy · Feb 1, 2012

I would think that modern Nikon SLR s both film and digital are such complex electro/mechanical devices that only Nikon and their approved repairers who have the right Nikon diagnostic/ test equipment and Nikon trained staff were able to correctly service their products, and beyond the capability s of many independent repairers.

semi-ambivalent · Feb 1, 2012

tkamiya said:
Nikon being a corporation and it is a for profit organization, I'd imagine the only way to make them change their mind is if anything we do actually affects their earnings or else being forced to change by law. We can sign all the petitions we want but until we start to speak by spending, such as not buying their cameras and lenses, there is no intensive for Nikon to change its mind. I doubt sufficient number of people will stop buying Nikon gears to make sufficient difference.

I don't know for sure, but doesn't automotive industry have a federal law requiring manufacturers to supply parts to indy repair shops? Perhaps that's a better way to approach this. Petition for legislative change.

This kind of practice isn't limited to Nikon. Some of the higher end companies are much worse. For example, Rolex won't sell anyone parts. Not only that, if they find the watches they receive for repair has been altered by a third party - even if it contained genuine parts like dials, they'll change it back to how the piece left the factory before they'd start the repair. If it contained any non-genuine parts, it will redo all the repairs before they'd do theirs. Yet, they do very well selling their pieces. Third party repair shops are plentiful too - despite these restrictions.

Not only will Rolex not sell parts they'll keep them too. A couple years ago I had my '77 SS Datejust rebuilt and asked for a new bracelet as the original one had links that were worn to the point of breaking. I was told that they would be keeping the old one. I protested, saying that was my property and had been since 1977. They won, of course, but the vendor gave me a bit of a price break to acknowledge my argument. I was going to put that bracelet on a fake movement and sell it down on upper Larimer, naturally.

s-a

fstop · Feb 1, 2012

tkamiya said:
Nikon being a corporation and it is a for profit organization, I'd imagine the only way to make them change their mind is if anything we do actually affects their earnings or else being forced to change by law. We can sign all the petitions we want but until we start to speak by spending, such as not buying their cameras and lenses, there is no intensive for Nikon to change its mind. I doubt sufficient number of people will stop buying Nikon gears to make sufficient difference.

I don't know for sure, but doesn't automotive industry have a federal law requiring manufacturers to supply parts to indy repair shops? Perhaps that's a better way to approach this. Petition for legislative change.

This kind of practice isn't limited to Nikon. Some of the higher end companies are much worse. For example, Rolex won't sell anyone parts. Not only that, if they find the watches they receive for repair has been altered by a third party - even if it contained genuine parts like dials, they'll change it back to how the piece left the factory before they'd start the repair. If it contained any non-genuine parts, it will redo all the repairs before they'd do theirs. Yet, they do very well selling their pieces. Third party repair shops are plentiful too - despite these restrictions.

THE LAST THING WE NEED IS MORE LAWS.
No law on the books requiring them to sell to anyone.They have to make parts available for 7 years but there is no requirement to sell to anyone.

fstop · Feb 1, 2012

benjiboy said:
I would think that modern Nikon SLR s both film and digital are such complex electro/mechanical devices that only Nikon and their approved repairers who have the right Nikon diagnostic/ test equipment and Nikon trained staff were able to correctly service their products, and beyond the capability s of many independent repairers.

Actually the DSLRs are much easier to repair than the film cameras. Mostly it is replacing boards etc, not repairing a single component. Many of the problems can be diagnosed by plugging the camera into a computer that has Nikons DSLR diagnostic and testing software or computer connection to a Nikon computer. It will tell you what the problems are and can make adjustments with out lifting a screw driver.

It takes less knowledge and dexterity to repair a DSLR than a film camera.

NIKON USERS READ

removed-user-1

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