Nikon S2 Questions

KN4SMF

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I just bought my friend's Nikon S2 with a Carl Zeiss Sonnar 1:2/50mm. He had it since 1964. So my first question is the lens situation. Only speculation can answer how the wrong lens got on the camera. And I've done my reading, as far as I can find any, but there are still questions. First, is there any way to adjust the rangefinder to work accurately with the one lens? And was there ever any shim or other accessory that allowed an S2 to work with this lens? While I'm at it, it appears that there is no parallax correction in the finder on this model. So in ordinary use does this present a problem? I may have more questions, so please stay tuned. Thank you.
 

choiliefan

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Someone recently posted about adjusting a Kiev lens in its mount to work on an S2 Nikon.
Similar trick may work on the Contax lens to Nikon body.
Lens needs to be adjusted to the film plane as well as rangefinder.
 

StepheKoontz

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I don't find the parallax to be a big issue, just be aware as you get in close, the top of the image will 'get cropped' and frame looser/up a bit higher. IMHO I'd sell the Zeiss lens and get the 50mm f2 nikkor.
 

guangong

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I agree with above comment. Sell the Zeiss lens and get the Nikon lens. A very simple, and probably cheaper solution. I have Contax IIa cameras and can use Nikon lenses that are clearly marked with a small “c”, for Contax. But I wouldn’t bother with attempting to mount a lens made for Nikon S cameras.
Contax doesn’t have parallax either. Leica M3 does. That is one reason why Zeiss and Nikon stopped making rf cameras.
Nonetheless, you have a great camera. Have fun!
 
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KN4SMF

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These aren't exactly the answers I would have wanted, but you can't go shopping for answers till you get the one you want. Enclosed are a couple of photos of the Carl Zeiss lens I have. Can anybody provide a link specific to this Carl Zeiss lens to tell me more about it? Anything and everything. Age,and any service manual material, since I'm going to have to get behind the front element for some cleaning. Also I've noticed apparently that these don't seem to be fetching any kind of a price compared to replacing it with a Nikkor lens, even though this one probably runs circles around a Nikon lens on lens quality.
Edit: Another tidbit that would be interesting to know is what percentage of the actual film area is shown in the finder.
 

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KN4SMF

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Attached are photos of 2 different auction listings at this time, when I entered "Nikkor 5cm f/2". Notice one barrel is black and the other is silver. Do both of these go with the S2?. If so which may be better?
I also have a question concerning the strap eyelets on the camera body. Like the Nikon F, the eyelets have no steel inserts. I plan to carry the camera with a neck strap attached to the camera, not a case. And anybody who has seen a Nikon F with wormed out strap eyelets would want to avoid that. I wonder if there is a way to line the eyelet with something protective, or by using a strap ring made of another material than steel.
 

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__Brian

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I've adjusted 1 Nikon S2 body to use Contax lenses, all the way up to the 13.5cm. This involved removing the mount of the camera and placing small washers under the screws, then adjusting the rangefinder.

I've also adjusted Contax mount lenses for the Nikon.

You only have one Contax lens: I would suggest adjusting the lens to the camera, if it has not been done already.

To check if the lens needs to be adjusted: shoot a ruler close-up and wide-open. A lens calibrated for the Contax will back-focus by 1" at 36". To correct this: take roung the retaining ring that holds the optical barrel in the mount. Once out, there is a variable stand-off ring. Unscrew it about 1/5th of a turn. Figure 0.5mm per turn. Put the barrel back into the mount, done. Keep an eye on the guide screw on the side of the mount.

If the focus is off by more than the 1", post back and I'll compute the required change.

I have a lot of lenses. The Nikkor 5cm F2 is a great lens, the post-war West German Zeiss 50/2 Sonnar that you have is first-rate. I have one adjusted for my Nikon S3 and another for the Contax IIIa.
 
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KN4SMF

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I'm grateful for you jumping in to help. Concerning adjusting the lens for the body, I wasn't sure I understood the procedure you were describing, so I went scouting around for more enlightenment. I stumbled upon another site where 1 of the steps sounded similar and made a screen shot of it , marking the similar-sounding verbiage in red (see attached). Is this what you mean? Secondly, I still question it, because that sounds like it would only move the infinity point and subsequently the entire range, but not a true dedication of the lens to this camera. I might add that previous study has said that between Contaxes and Nikons, infinity is the same.
I'm thinking that in order to truly dedicate the lens to this camera from closest focus, throughout the entire range to infinity, would require a complete rangefinder calibration. I've calibrated my share of rangefinders and can easily figure out the procedure on an unknown camera such as this. On the other hand, adjusting the rangefinder would lock the user into the one lens, which for me is fine, as I have no intention of spending money to buy more lenses. So to summarize, if I am understanding correctly, your method would be more universal but less accurate, and my idea would be very accurate but for only the one lens. Would you agree? Thank you.
 

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__Brian

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That is the ring to use for adjustment.

This is a Sonnar formula lens, and focus shift due to spherical aberration works in your favor. Moving the lens out to calibrate for a "sweet Spot" at about 8ft means a slight back-focus at closest focus and a slight front-focus at infinity. DOF is enough to cover residual error close-in; stopping down to F2.8 shifts focus towards infinity. Adjusting the lens in this manner takes 10 minutes, is fully reversible- just mark the starting position.

The focus throw of the Nikon Helical is less than that for the Contax: 260degrees from 3ft to infinity vs 270 degrees for the Contax. The Contax is calibrated for 52.4mm, the Nikon for 51.6mm. Adjusting the Nikon RF for the helical in the new position will take trial and error, more than adjusting for infinity. I adjusted alignment at 8ft.

Make sure to shoot with the lens first: make sure it has not already been adjusted.

This is with my Zeiss Opton 50mm F1.5 Sonnar, wide-open on the modified S2. I did this mod almost 20 years ago. The results from the adjusted lens on my unmodified Nikon bodies are just as accurate. The nice thing about this S2: I can use with a telephoto lens made for the Contax.

 
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KN4SMF

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I just finished reassembly of the lens for a cleaning, but the result was less than what I would have wanted, especially the front element. Close examination doesn't show evidence of coating loss, still there's something on it that won't come off. I have seen this before. Like a coating of smoke that can't be cleaned. And looking through the lens at light bulb shows everything down in there to be additive in this effect. It's just not a crystal clear lens. This may have little effect on pictures, but put that together with this being the wrong lens in the first place leaves me to conclude that I'm just going to have to find a Nikon lens. I paid my friend $320 for this outfit Sunday at his insistence that it was too much. But he wouldn't let me pay him for allowing me to keep my old car on his property for 3 years when I finally sold it Sunday.
 

__Brian

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The Zeiss F2 lenses are not as durable as the F1.5 version. The lenses use a mix of soft glass and hard glass: with the F1.5 Sonnar the front element is hard glass; the F2 lens - like a Summar- is soft glass. Find a Sonnar F2 that had a filter on it for the last 50 years, treasure it. I have.

With the Nikkor 5cm F2: I have two that had the same problem you describe- after all, was based on the Zeiss lens. The 5cm F1.4: tends to be more durable.

The Nikkor 5cm F2 is a reasonable price, and has smoother Bokeh than the F1.4 lens. The 5cm F1.4 went through several iterations, the later black ones probably being the best.

$320 is a fair price. I would try a few shots with the Zeiss lens and a hood. The Nikkor 5cm F2 uses the same 40.5mm accessories.
 
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Huss

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Before you do anything, shoot a test roll at multiple distances and aperture openings. Perhaps the lens already works correctly with the S2. After all, it's been on it for a while now so maybe it was matched way back when.
 
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KN4SMF

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Huss said:
Before you do anything, shoot a test roll at multiple distances and aperture openings. Perhaps the lens already works correctly with the S2. After all, it's been on it for a while now so maybe it was matched way back when.
Click to expand...
Thank you all for seconding my diagnosis of the lens. Out the door the camera goes. I have 2 beautiful F's and a mint F2, all with perfect glass, any one of which can outperform a squinty rangefinder. That money can re-cap and re-tube my Knight and Heath transmitters, buy a VFO, and still have pocket money to boot. Leftover money, enough for a neg carrier for my Beseler 45M enlarger. It would be absurd to have $450+ in some rangefinder camera, just because it's a "collector's item". I don't need any more collector's items laying around the house collecting dust. Throwing good money after bad.
 

__Brian

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Rangefinder cameras are not for everyone. I did not start shooting with Nikon and Leica rangefinders until 22 years ago, have been shooting with Nikon F2 and Nikon F since 1978. I picked up the Nikon RF's more than the F2 before too long, found I could nail the focus more accurately and quickly using a Nikkor 8.5cm F2 on the SP faster than a Nikkor 85/2 on the F2AS. Designing a lens to clear the SLR mirror means more complex and larger optics for lenses up to ~100mm. Wide angle lenses for the RF, such as the 3.5cm F2.5 and 2.8cm F3.5 are very sharp, and tiny- compared with the retro-focus lenses required for SLR's.
 

abruzzi

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__Brian said:
Rangefinder cameras are not for everyone.
Click to expand...

RFs are not my favorite, but they are so much nicer than SLRs for zone and hyperfocal type focusing. You can do it with SLRs, but everytime I look through the viewfinder, seeing everything out of focus it is hard to ignore. With my RFs, I set the exposure to somewhere around sunny 16, the focus so everything from 2 meters to infinity is in the depth of field, and just take pictures without adjusting anything.
 

ags2mikon

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I agree with Brian these old sonnars draw an image that is so different from today's hyper perfect lenses. I have Nikkors, Sonnars and jupiters that all need to be adjusted some day to all work on my s2 Nikon's.That way I can get rid of my kiev bodies.
 

__Brian

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The Post-War 50mm Sonnars are very easy to adjust, they use a variable stand-off ring. The Jupiters screw in against a shim, meaning if you change the spacing you typically need to re-index the aperture ring.
I used to convert pre-war Sonnars to Leica mount using a J-3 focus mount, would charge a nominal fee ($25~$35) and the left-over parts. Which I promptly made into J-3's for Contax and Nikons.
 

ags2mikon

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I guess the first thing would to do would make sure the s2 bodies are adjusted properly to infinity and that the rangefinder agrees also at infinity. Is that right? Is there a measurement for the lens flange to the film plane? I do have depth micrometers and some ground blocks. Of course I may be over thinking this. What say you Brian. The picture of the little girl is just so beautiful. My opton sonnar renders the same.
 

__Brian

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Unless someone took the helical off the camera and forgot to replace the small shims (look like Washers) that control the stand-off, the flange distance should be fine. I had this happen- bought an S2 from Ebay, someone did not put the shims back after removing the helical. That is the one I chose to adjust for the Contax lenses.

It's easier to adjust the Sonnar lens to the unadjusted Nikon body! I would verify that the Rangefinder of the camera is accurate at infinity. After that: test the lens on the camera with the Back off, camera set to "T". I use a negative strip taped to the rails, and use a 15x loupe with a reticule. The glass of the reticule holds the negative flat. Focus on an object about 8ft, set the lens to agree with the RF using the variable stand-off ring. Typically about 1/2 turn of the ring counter-clockwise (unscrewing it to increase stand-off) should do the trick.

Not the S2- but this shows adjusting the J-3 for a Canon 7 using the negative and loupe:

http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/j3service.pdf
 

ags2mikon

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I guess the first thing would to do would make sure the s2 bodies are adjusted properly to infinity and that the rangefinder agrees also at infinity. Is that right? Is there a measurement for the lens flange to the film plane? I do have depth micrometers and some ground blocks. Of course I may be over thinking this. What say you Brian. The picture of the little girl is just so beautiful. My opton sonnar renders the same.
 

ags2mikon

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Ebay sales are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you will get. 2 of my s2's were from my uncle's estate and he bought them new in Japan as a US serviceman stationed there. He had then serviced by Nikon before he came back to the states in 73 so they should be ok. I used one of them in 1969 when I was still in HS. It was the first 35mm camera I used. Kinda like your first girl you don't forget. I shot weddings, school sports and school newspaper shots with it. It has come back to me like a long lost friend. The 3.5cm f2.5 lens is one of the better 35mm wide angle lens I have used. I don't think the opton biogon is much better if at all. I would like to shim/adjust my helios 103. When you nail focus with it is is very good. I think it is a sleeper lens much under rated. 6/4 construction so I don't think focus shift will rear its head like the sonnar lenses. Being 53mm instead of 51.6 may make it a challenge. I don't know if I need to move element or cell spacing to get 51.6. It may be close enough now due to very tight Russian assembly standards. Thanks for your replies. Getting harder to find film photographers these days.
 

ags2mikon

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Well I did some testing today. An s2 body from my uncles estate that was last worked on by Nikon Japan. I have 2 3.5 cm f2.5 lenses one was from the estate and one was mine. Both should have little if any focus shift judging by their design. Both lenses tracked the range finder at inf, 30 ft 10ft and 3 ft. I used a focus screen from a camera cut down to fit between the rails that the film rides on. The inner rails, not the outer rails. And a good loupe. This makes me think that the body is spot on. Then I tested a Jupiter 12 black 1980s made. It is also a lens that should not have focus shift. It also tracked perfectly. Did Kiev cut the helical to Leica spec? Then I tested my Zeiss Opton 35mm biogon. Another lens that should not have focus shift. Solid chrome plated brass. What a lens. It was off at inf and 30 ft but spot on at 10 ft and 3 ft. I was under the impression that Zeiss spec would be on the money at inf and go further out of wack as I get closer. All lenses were tested wide open so I think that dof will fix inf and 30 ft and wide open 3-10 foot will be perfect. I am somewhat confused at this point. I picked the symmetrical lenses to avoid focus shift and just test for rf compatibility and flange to film plane errors.
 
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