Nikon LS-8000 bit the dust................repair???

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John Wiegerink

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Well, I got back to the cottage where the 8000 scanner resides and started scanning via Vuescan and the darn thing started acting up. It would go then stop and then start scanning again. I tried my old fire wire card and no difference. Tried a different cable, no difference. Now Vuescan can't even find my scanner. Also, the scanner doesn't seem to initialize the same every time when I try to start it. Anyone have a suggestion or a place in the USA that can take a look at it? I've tried about everting I can think of. I even pulled the housing to check for bad connections, but found none. Help!😭😭
 

radialMelt

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I suspect you might have some luck posting in the Coolscan Facebook group as well:

 

PhilBurton

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You may want to turn to Gleb Shtengel as he performs repair on these scanners.

Do not give up on it, your coolscan is most likely repairable.

Absolutely. In addition to Gleb Shtengel, there is one other guy also based in the USA is is highly respected. He did a fix on my scanner when the batch feeder would not work. Frank Phillips. You can't go wrong with either one., They are quite busy with work.

Gleb has even 3-D printed some parts for Nikon scanners.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Absolutely. In addition to Gleb Shtengel, there is one other guy also based in the USA is is highly respected. He did a fix on my scanner when the batch feeder would not work. Frank Phillips. You can't go wrong with either one., They are quite busy with work.

Gleb has even 3-D printed some parts for Nikon scanners.
I'm going play around with it for another day or two and see if I can tell what's going on. If I can't I'll contact Steb or Frank. I'm not much for Facebook, but I'll do a post there after I play with it for two days. This has me stumped?
 

PhilBurton

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I'm going play around with it for another day or two and see if I can tell what's going on. If I can't I'll contact Steb or Frank. I'm not much for Facebook,
Me too. Several years ago I cancelled Twitter after experienced lots of antisemitism there after I posted about someone drawing a swastika in my town. I would have also quit Facebook except for this group. My FB page is a total blank, I have only a few business "friends" from 12 years ago, etc. I am not even "friends" with my adult kids.
but I'll do a post there after I play with it for two days.

Do so. You will get informative and helpful responses in reply.
This has me stumped?

Yo have to apply for membership in this group, which keeps troublemakers and trolls out. You will have no problem being approved. Once in the group, you can search on this problem or do a post.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Me too. Several years ago I cancelled Twitter after experienced lots of antisemitism there after I posted about someone drawing a swastika in my town. I would have also quit Facebook except for this group. My FB page is a total blank, I have only a few business "friends" from 12 years ago, etc. I am not even "friends" with my adult kids.


Do so. You will get informative and helpful responses in reply.


Yo have to apply for membership in this group, which keeps troublemakers and trolls out. You will have no problem being approved. Once in the group, you can search on this problem or do a post.
I just checked Facebook and found out I'm already a member of the group. I think I remember posting something a while back, so I had to have joined. I guess you know how much I use Facebook. I'll do a post tomorrow and see what I get. I'll also jot down everything the 8000 does so I can describe it properly when I post.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Well, I'm done playing around with the scanner and will go to the Facebook group and see what folks say there. I let it set overnight and then turn it on and it did its warm up routine like normal. I then fed it my negative carrier and it seemed to work perfect. After three or four tries it went back to being wonky. This was all without being hook to the firewire cable. I think it's time for some professional help. Thanks for everyone's input.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Good luck, I hope you'll get it fixed! I'm optimistic about this likely being the power supply, which is a relatively straightforward fix.
Thanks, and you're probably right. It's just that I ha ve no sure way of knowing. It's probably some $4.00 part that's solder onto the board. Of course the question is which part or parts is it. I'll post back here as to what I finally find out.
 

PhilBurton

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Thanks, and you're probably right. It's just that I ha ve no sure way of knowing. It's probably some $4.00 part that's solder onto the board. Of course the question is which part or parts is it. I'll post back here as to what I finally find out.
Even if it's more complicated, between Frank and Gleb you should get it fixed and all working again. A Nikon 4000 scanner is one of the best made. Equal to the 5000 except for the Firewire connection.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Even if it's more complicated, between Frank and Gleb you should get it fixed and all working again. A Nikon 4000 scanner is one of the best made. Equal to the 5000 except for the Firewire connection.
Yes, I plan on contact Frank or Gleb to see what my course of action should be.
 

mmerig

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Well, I'm done playing around with the scanner and will go to the Facebook group and see what folks say there. I let it set overnight and then turn it on and it did its warm up routine like normal. I then fed it my negative carrier and it seemed to work perfect. After three or four tries it went back to being wonky. This was all without being hook to the firewire cable. I think it's time for some professional help. Thanks for everyone's input.
Sounds like something is getting hot with time, and is limiting voltage or current. Maybe you can feel for a hot transistor or something after you turn it off and unplug it, or just look for signs of heat (browning, discoloring). That is safer than using your fingers. Of course you'll have to remove the cover/housing to take a look. I would look in the power supply section first. If it is pulse-modulated power supply, there are components that go bad in them that are under a lot of stress. Fixing these are tricky though, and can be more dangerous when working/testing on the primary side (high voltage, 110 or 220).

Probably better to send it out if you are not sure what to do, but it sounds fixable. Good luck.
 

koraks

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Maybe you can feel for a hot transistor or something after you turn it off and unplug it,

No. This is neither safe, nor effective.

If it is pulse-modulated power supply

You mean a switch-mode power supply (SMPS) and yes, that's what this is. This means that incoming AC is rectified and buffered by one or two fairly large caps, usually in the 100-500uF range. 160V at this capacitance is a very, very nasty jolt and if you're unlucky, lethal.

In an SMPS, this high-voltage DC is switched to feed the primary of a step-down transformer. The switching element is generally a MOSFET, usually discrete component in TO220 or similar form factor. To handle with the switching losses, this MOSFET is heatsinked. Depending on the construction of the power supply, this entire heatsink may float at high voltage. Furthermore, in many power supplies, part of the frame/housing is used as a heatsink; in these cases there should be an insulator pad between the switching transistor (and usually rectifier diodes) and the heatsink/casing, but don't bet any money on this being (1) the case and (2) effective; I have in fact worked on units where assembly errors had these pads mounted improperly putting the housing of the power supply on HVDC (in this case it was fortunately sitting inside a plastic outer shell!)

Given the fact that the problem is intermittent, it's fairly sure that it's not this part that has given the ghost since MOSFETs virtually always fail hard - it's a binary thing. One moment they're fine, the next moment they're totally dead. Furthermore, they will always run warm or even quite hot in an application like this, so feeling around won't be conclusive to begin with. The heatsink is there for a reason, after all. Any browning on the PCB is also not necessarily an indicator of a defect since over the course of 10-20 years there will usually be discoloration of the PCB and some components in hot areas.

Visual inspection can give some clues. In cases of hard faults, look for the EMI capacitor right at the AC input which tends to pop after a decade or so; this is generally a little (usually yellow) box. They generally fail catastrophically; i.e. they explode (but won't start a fire while doing so if the correct type was used), so it's easy to see if this has happened. A more likely candidate in this case is/are the HV buffer capacitor(s) immediately after the rectifier; these are generally brown or black cylinders and the largest components on the PCB together with the transformer and any heatsinks. Check for bulging or leakage of the electrolyte. Given the nature of the problem, this is the place where I'd personally start; it would make for a relatively quick & easy fix. This inspection would still involve handling the unit with the utmost care because such a large part of it can still float at 160VDC (in 230V countries it's around 325V even!) and it's really, really easy and really nasty to mistakenly touch the wrong part here and there.

Of course, any signs of obvious explosive deconstruction and/or carbonization of parts is a good clue of a defect. However, I would have expected part of the story to involve mention of smoke or at least nasty smells.

Long story short: inspection is possible, but it only makes sense if you know what you're doing and what you're looking for. In OP's case, I'd stick with the advice to take the device to someone who has experience handling electronics and preferably these scanners in particular. In any case, you don't go feeling around an SMPS with your fingers.
 
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John Wiegerink

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No. This is neither safe, nor effective.



You mean a switch-mode power supply (SMPS) and yes, that's what this is. This means that incoming AC is rectified and buffered by one or two fairly large caps, usually in the 100-500uF range. 160V at this capacitance is a very, very nasty jolt and if you're unlucky, lethal.

In an SMPS, this high-voltage DC is switched to feed the primary of a step-down transformer. The switching element is generally a MOSFET, usually discrete component in TO220 or similar form factor. To handle with the switching losses, this MOSFET is heatsinked. Depending on the construction of the power supply, this entire heatsink may float at high voltage. Furthermore, in many power supplies, part of the frame/housing is used as a heatsink; in these cases there should be an insulator pad between the switching transistor (and usually rectifier diodes) and the heatsink/casing, but don't bet any money on this being (1) the case and (2) effective; I have in fact worked on units where assembly errors had these pads mounted improperly putting the housing of the power supply on HVDC (in this case it was fortunately sitting inside a plastic outer shell!)

Given the fact that the problem is intermittent, it's fairly sure that it's not this part that has given the ghost since MOSFETs virtually always fail hard - it's a binary thing. One moment they're fine, the next moment they're totally dead. Furthermore, they will always run warm or even quite hot in an application like this, so feeling around won't be conclusive to begin with. The heatsink is there for a reason, after all. Any browning on the PCB is also not necessarily an indicator of a defect since over the course of 10-20 years there will usually be discoloration of the PCB and some components in hot areas.

Visual inspection can give some clues. In cases of hard faults, look for the EMI capacitor right at the AC input which tends to pop after a decade or so; this is generally a little (usually yellow) box. They generally fail catastrophically; i.e. they explode (but won't start a fire while doing so if the correct type was used), so it's easy to see if this has happened. A more likely candidate in this case is/are the HV buffer capacitor(s) immediately after the rectifier; these are generally brown or black cylinders and the largest components on the PCB together with the transformer and any heatsinks. Check for bulging or leakage of the electrolyte. Given the nature of the problem, this is the place where I'd personally start; it would make for a relatively quick & easy fix. This inspection would still involve handling the unit with the utmost care because such a large part of it can still float at 160VDC (in 230V countries it's around 325V even!) and it's really, really easy and really nasty to mistakenly touch the wrong part here and there.

Of course, any signs of obvious explosive deconstruction and/or carbonization of parts is a good clue of a defect. However, I would have expected part of the story to involve mention of smoke or at least nasty smells.

Long story short: inspection is possible, but it only makes sense if you know what you're doing and what you're looking for. In OP's case, I'd stick with the advice to take the device to someone who has experience handling electronics and preferably these scanners in particular. In any case, you don't go feeling around an SMPS with your fingers.
 
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John Wiegerink

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Thanks kodaks. I pulled the cover and did all the visual inspections. I found no bulged or leaking caps. Nothing looked like it was overheated or discolored either. I'm going to pull both the power board and main board and check the underside for any signs of fault later this week (kind of busy right now). If I find none I'll contact Frank or Gleb about sending them my boards for their analyzes.
 

Shaps

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Good luck on getting your scanner back running. The paper I worked for had several and they very good. Unfortunately we did not buy an extended warranty and not feasable to repair without that so we dumped them.
 

mmerig

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No. This is neither safe, nor effective.



You mean a switch-mode power supply (SMPS) and yes, that's what this is. This means that incoming AC is rectified and buffered by one or two fairly large caps, usually in the 100-500uF range. 160V at this capacitance is a very, very nasty jolt and if you're unlucky, lethal.

In an SMPS, this high-voltage DC is switched to feed the primary of a step-down transformer. The switching element is generally a MOSFET, usually discrete component in TO220 or similar form factor. To handle with the switching losses, this MOSFET is heatsinked. Depending on the construction of the power supply, this entire heatsink may float at high voltage. Furthermore, in many power supplies, part of the frame/housing is used as a heatsink; in these cases there should be an insulator pad between the switching transistor (and usually rectifier diodes) and the heatsink/casing, but don't bet any money on this being (1) the case and (2) effective; I have in fact worked on units where assembly errors had these pads mounted improperly putting the housing of the power supply on HVDC (in this case it was fortunately sitting inside a plastic outer shell!)

Given the fact that the problem is intermittent, it's fairly sure that it's not this part that has given the ghost since MOSFETs virtually always fail hard - it's a binary thing. One moment they're fine, the next moment they're totally dead. Furthermore, they will always run warm or even quite hot in an application like this, so feeling around won't be conclusive to begin with. The heatsink is there for a reason, after all. Any browning on the PCB is also not necessarily an indicator of a defect since over the course of 10-20 years there will usually be discoloration of the PCB and some components in hot areas.

Visual inspection can give some clues. In cases of hard faults, look for the EMI capacitor right at the AC input which tends to pop after a decade or so; this is generally a little (usually yellow) box. They generally fail catastrophically; i.e. they explode (but won't start a fire while doing so if the correct type was used), so it's easy to see if this has happened. A more likely candidate in this case is/are the HV buffer capacitor(s) immediately after the rectifier; these are generally brown or black cylinders and the largest components on the PCB together with the transformer and any heatsinks. Check for bulging or leakage of the electrolyte. Given the nature of the problem, this is the place where I'd personally start; it would make for a relatively quick & easy fix. This inspection would still involve handling the unit with the utmost care because such a large part of it can still float at 160VDC (in 230V countries it's around 325V even!) and it's really, really easy and really nasty to mistakenly touch the wrong part here and there.

Of course, any signs of obvious explosive deconstruction and/or carbonization of parts is a good clue of a defect. However, I would have expected part of the story to involve mention of smoke or at least nasty smells.

Long story short: inspection is possible, but it only makes sense if you know what you're doing and what you're looking for. In OP's case, I'd stick with the advice to take the device to someone who has experience handling electronics and preferably these scanners in particular. In any case, you don't go feeling around an SMPS with your fingers.

Thanks to koraks for pointing out the problems with my post, and I am sorry I was so sloppy about it. What was especially dumb was that most people familiar with circuitry would not poke around carelessly in high-voltage areas, but people with variable experience read these posts, so I should have been especially careful. Koraks gives great advice. I was just trying to give a hint, given the timing of the failure in the OP's scanner.

Sometimes, partial/intermittent failures are due to current leakage or oscillation or other causes, and finding a hot component that should not be hot can give a hint to where a problem could be. I have repaired a few complex devices that would fail soon after turn-on using this approach. Another technique is to spray suspect devices with freeze-spray to cool it down and look for recovery in the circuit's function. Some people use a thermal camera to see hot spots. This avoids hot fingers but you still have to know what devices would be normally warm or even hot (say 50 degrees C).

I have a Nikon Coolscan V ED, and when it had to be repaired several years ago, I sent it to Nikon. This evening I took mine apart to see how complex it was, and there were a lot of surface-mounted devices on the main board, and it would be very time-consuming to track down a problem on it, even with a schematic, let alone fix it without special tools. There are a few large, complex integrated circuits too. I bet repairers replace the board rather than fix it.

The power supply on my Nikon scanner had no retained voltages on either the high or low voltage sections after turning it off. But it's always good to check voltages, even after the unit is turned-off, before handling it. Usually, a resistor(s) to ground drops the voltage on the caps to zero in a few seconds, but as koraks mentions, you can't count on that.

The Nikon scanner's power supply's output had 5, 5, 15, and -12 volt DC lines, which are not surprising levels. Assuming it is the same for the Nikon 8000, a skilled person could check these voltages (and ripple) to see if it was the power supply, or perhaps current leakage on the main board pulling a voltage down. The power supply could be removed and tested on its own (but it may need a load to run). But still, it would probably be better to send the whole scanner to the people that fix them, especially if the power supply is okay.

I bought the scanner used about 20 years ago, but tonight all the board surfaces and devices showed no discoloration, and the unit stays cool when I use it. It is rated at 0.3 amps at 110 VAC.

I have had switching power supplies fail slowly/intermittently, but just replaced them with similar or better units. I had one (in a CRT video monitor) behave opposite of the OP's --- I had to keep turning it off and on until the capacitors charged enough to allow the circuit to stabilize and stay on. After re-capping, it worked fine.
 

koraks

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@mmerig thanks for coming back to this and apologies for getting on your case; I feel something of a warning was in place, just like you say to at least give a heads up to the adventurous but not necessarily well-informed among us.

Usually, a resistor(s) to ground drops the voltage on the caps to zero in a few seconds

Yes, although these bleeder caps tend to be 100k ~1Meg usually, because dissipation otherwise would be too high. This means a considerable time before voltages have dropped to safe levels.

current leakage on the main board pulling a voltage down

Unlikely; this is an SMPS, so all voltages are derived from the same transformer. One of those voltages is the source of the feedback signal to the SMPS controller. In practice this means that if one voltage drifts, they all do. But they generally don't, because something usually has died (catastrophically) before this happens.

I have had switching power supplies fail slowly/intermittently, but just replaced them with similar or better units.

That's what I did with my little Minolta; it turned out to be a single 24V unit and I had a handful of generic Chinese ones sitting here anyway I purchased for a different project.
In a similar vein, the PSU section of one of these Nikon scanners could also be replaced with a single generic SMPS and a couple of buck converters. The whole thing could even be made to fit in the same space. Which means that there are options even if these power supplies end up being unrepairable for one reason or another.

I had one (in a CRT video monitor)

Those are a whole different ballgame altogether; while the technology is/was fascinating, I think it's great we've gotten rid of these. Bulky, heavy (how I didn't break my back hauling hundreds upon hundreds of these about...) and moreover absolutely lethal from a viewpoint of repairs. They had a habit of being prone to all manner of misc. failures.
 
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