Nikon FM3a or Leica R8 / R9

Moose22 · May 6, 2022

hap said:
True...I have F3HP. It's quite beautiful and the view finder is the best. Manual focus is a breeze. I can use my AF lenses on it in manual .

I have two F3s. And an FM3A.

I LOVE my FM3A. It's the perfect Nikon SLR in about 8 out of 10 ways -- needle meter, the little button to drop a stop off the flash for fill, the location of the exposure lock button... all perfect. There is NOTHING to complain about with the FM3A... except the price, which is way too high. I thought I overpaid at $300-$400 less than what similar condition FM3As go for now.

F3 has a spottier meter, which I prefer. It's 80/20 and about perfect for scanning a scene. Finder is great, the price is great, the durability is great, and I have used these more than anything except, maybe, the F6. A needle meter would be nice, but bang for the buck they are a lot of bang for a reasonable buck. There's a reason they were made for so darned long and used by so many pros into the auto-focus era.

But the Leica R9 is a more modern camera. It's more a contemporary of an F5 or F6 than an F3. The only thing old school about it is the lack of autofocus. FM3A was meant to be a really nice throwback to the pre-AF era of Nikon, with a few little modern plusses, but that's it. It even has the old style fixed 60/40 meter, no matrix metering, no spot. R9 has a modern 21st century meter, matrix with great precision, and really high quality TTL flash.

If you compare R9 prices to F6 prices, they're not that expensive. And even compared to the grand you'd spend on an FM3A, you're getting a better feature set by far.

Lenses for Leica will cost you a bit, but they are nice.

If you have the money, get the Leica. It's a more featureful, more modern camera that works well.

If you're looking to save, get an F3 before an FM3A.

McDiesel · May 6, 2022

Putting cameras aside for a moment, let's look at the lenses.

The F-mount trumps everything else. Not only the original Nikkor F-lenses were great, but the overall ecosystem of F-mount lenses is head and shoulders above others. Consider this: you go on B&H right now and buy a brand new F-mount lens like Zeiss Otus or Milvus that has no rivals in any other manual focus SLR mount, new or used. God-like MTF, completely immune to flare, perfect contrast, premium construction coupled with modern materials, robust coatings, etc. All other manual focus SLR mounts aren't even close because they have been dead for a long time. Only M-mount can brag about high end glass like that, but that's not an SLR.

Looking at the Nikons, I will agree with everyone who recommends an F3 over FM3a. The F3 is a more premium product and it shows in multiple dimensions: the way it feels in your hand, the sounds it makes, it even looks better.

Moose22 · May 6, 2022

McDiesel said:
it even looks better.

I like the FM3A looks better.

Not that it matters... F3s are great cameras and that plus a 50mm lens you can buy for less than $100 which is fast and ridiculously sharp is a really great walkin' around rig for way less than the quality you get.

pkr1979 · May 6, 2022

Thanks guys, lots of useful feedback here. For 35mm these days Im using a Nikon F4 and a Leica M6. There are many things to appreciate with the M6, however I do prefer SLRs over rangefinders.

So, Im considering the R8/R9 as Id still like a Leica if I get rid of the M6, and the R8/9 design is awesome. What I would miss if ditching the M6 is a mechanical camera, hence the FM3a... I know, there are cameras like the FM2 (used to have one, and liked it), but having a mechanical camera with aperture priority is convenient. Its also smaller than the R8/9, which is a plus. Dependability is also important.

film_man · May 6, 2022

Based on my previous ownership of R8, FM2n, F3HP, I'd say if money is no object a black R9 with the latest 50/1.4R (which is silly money). Superb finder, the best grip of all manual focus cameras, autoexposure, 1/8000, really smooth operation.

But if money was no object I'd get a FM3a too for the smaller body and the fact that a 50/1.2 is available for very little (comparitevely) money.

I wouldn't buy a R8 because of the idiotic lack of AE lock (only works in spot).

Final note, there is no practical or rational reason to buy a Leica R8/9. Nikon will give you cheaper bodies, equal features and a much wider selection of lenses for a lot less money.

Nitroplait · May 6, 2022

The notion that Leica lenses are superior to anything is absurd!
I own 7 leica/leitz branded lenses, and the only one I prefer over all the other lenses I own (around 25) is my Elmar-M 50/2.8 - and obviously for very subjective reasons.
I have at least 4 Nikkor lenses and one Voigtlander lens I like that follows on my favorite list before Leica appears again.

The lenses makes the system, and Nikon has as much or more to offer as any.

The Nikon FM(x)/FE(x) bodies are not made with the same solidity as the Nikon F(x) or Leica R8/9, but that does not mean they are less robust for entusiast useage.
If the feel of the camera has high importance, a Nikon F3 is exceptionally smooth and still more compact than an R8/9. If functionality is an priority, N8008s/F801s cameras are given away for close to free.
If Leica is what is wanted, only Leica can give you that.

The tiring arguments related to the advantages of mechanical cameras are almost unbearable to hear. A CR 1/3N (3v) lithium battery has 10 years shelf life and how much space does that occupy in the bag? (besides LR44s are available everywhere).

NB23 · May 6, 2022

Nitroplait said:
The tiring arguments related to the advantages of mechanical cameras are almost unbearable to hear. A CR 1/3N (3v) lithium battery has 10 years shelf life and how much space does that occupy in the bag? (besides LR44s are available everywhere).

Tiring for you but not for me, as I am tired of non-mechanical cameras.

-in the rain, because I love shooting in the rain, raindrops on my M7’s hot shoe make it go berzerk. Same for snow.

-in winter, my electronic cameras do not work.

-in humid temperatures, I’ve had electronic cameras that couldn’t stand it.

-obviously, the sensations of using a mechanical camera are unbeatable. Why would I even pay for batteries to get rid of that unbeatable feeling?

So what’s left? Once I stopped using electronic cameras that failed me I am now stuck with mechanical cameras. Naturally.

xkaes · May 6, 2022

Nitroplait said:
The notion that Leica lenses are superior to anything is absurd!
I own 7 leica/leitz branded lenses, and the only one I prefer over all the other lenses I own (around 25) is my Elmar-M 50/2.8 - and obviously for very subjective reasons.
I have at least 4 Nikkor lenses and one Voigtlander lens I like that follows on my favorite list before Leica appears again.

I agree completely -- but I actually own several "Leica" lenses. They are just not labelled "LEITZ". They are labelled "MINOLTA MC ROKKOR-X", such as the 80-200mm f4.5, the 24mm f2.8, and the 16mm f2.8 fisheye. Leitz liked them so much they bought them from Minolta, slapped on a Leica R-mount and the Leica label, and sold them as their own. There were several other lenses as well -- and cameras too!!!

film_man · May 6, 2022

NB23 said:
Tiring for you but not for me, as I am tired of non-mechanical cameras.

-in the rain, because I love shooting in the rain, raindrops on my M7’s hot shoe make it go berzerk. Same for snow.

-in winter, my electronic cameras do not work.

-in humid temperatures, I’ve had electronic cameras that couldn’t stand it.

-obviously, the sensations of using a mechanical camera are unbeatable. Why would I even pay for batteries to get rid of that unbeatable feeling?

So what’s left? Once I stopped using electronic cameras that failed me I am now stuck with mechanical cameras. Naturally.

Actually the sensation of using the R8/9 with Leica lenses is unbeatable compared to the unergonomic shape of the F cameras and the roughness of AI glass. The Nikon apeture rings are notchy and rough in comparison to Leica R ones.

Weather? I have plenty of photos with my two R8 cameras in a lovely New York snow at -10C. You need colder? Well I'll stay in if it is any colder than that. I have never had an electronic 35mm camera cause me trouble. Even my plastic fantastic EOS 300 has been around the world a few times and still works just like it did when it came out of the factory 22 years ago, the shutter speeds are still accurate and all that with zero maintenance.

I guess it is all subjective!

xkaes · May 6, 2022

NB23 said:
Tiring for you but not for me, as I am tired of non-mechanical cameras.

So what’s left? Once I stopped using electronic cameras that failed me I am now stuck with mechanical cameras. Naturally.

If I had to pick one camera to "go anywhere" it would be my Minolta SRT102. When "the electricity goes out" -- and it always does -- it will still work.

NB23 · May 6, 2022

film_man said:
Actually the sensation of using the R8/9 with Leica lenses is unbeatable compared to the unergonomic shape of the F cameras and the roughness of AI glass. The Nikon apeture rings are notchy and rough in comparison to Leica R ones.

Weather? I have plenty of photos with my two R8 cameras in a lovely New York snow at -10C. You need colder? Well I'll stay in if it is any colder than that. I have never had an electronic 35mm camera cause me trouble. Even my plastic fantastic EOS 300 has been around the world a few times and still works just like it did when it came out of the factory 22 years ago, the shutter speeds are still accurate and all that with zero maintenance.

I guess it is all subjective!

I’m not sure that I can call all my misfortunes “subjective” lol

But yes, there is also the subjective personal preference...

Huss · May 6, 2022

film_man said:
.

Final note, there is no practical or rational reason to buy a Leica R8/9. Nikon will give you cheaper bodies, equal features and a much wider selection of lenses for a lot less money.

Equal features? Not even close. Compare the meter modes, flash control etc.

The thing that kills the FM3a for me is the FE2. Handle both at the same time. And then realize that one camera costs 4 times as much as the other, but feels pretty much identical.
Handle an F3P and an FM3a at the same time. You'd swear the F3 costs 4 times as much as the FM3a...

Huss · May 6, 2022

hap said:
True...I have F3HP. It's quite beautiful and the view finder is the best. Manual focus is a breeze. I can use my AF lenses on it in manual .

A few months ago I got the P screen for my F3. It is the best - diagonal split screen/microprism with horizontal and vertical grid lines so not only is it really easy to focus, but also to make sure everything is lined up. Super handy when using wide/extreme wide angle lenses. A similar one is available for the FM3A but it does not have the focus aids, just a matte screen. And is way harder to change.

To the OP - Ultimately though.... get the one that you like the most! Just be aware that many of us will disagree with your decision!

hap · May 6, 2022

Yes, Huss you bought the P that I was stalking. I snoozed and loozed. However, I did locate another one at the right price.

McDiesel · May 6, 2022

NB23 said:
Tiring for you but not for me, as I am tired of non-mechanical cameras.

-in the rain, because I love shooting in the rain, raindrops on my M7’s hot shoe make it go berzerk. Same for snow.

-in winter, my electronic cameras do not work.

-in humid temperatures, I’ve had electronic cameras that couldn’t stand it.

-obviously, the sensations of using a mechanical camera are unbeatable. Why would I even pay for batteries to get rid of that unbeatable feeling?

So what’s left? Once I stopped using electronic cameras that failed me I am now stuck with mechanical cameras. Naturally.

What do you mean by "what's left"? Your reasons to prefer mechanical cameras are legitimate, but you omitted the only benefit of the electronic ones, the elephant in the room: the built-in meter with aperture priority and AE lock. If that's not of value, then sure - adding electronics makes zero sense.

NB23 · May 6, 2022

McDiesel said:
What do you mean by "what's left"? Your reasons to prefer mechanical cameras are legitimate, but you omitted the only benefit of the electronic ones, the elephant in the room: the built-in meter with aperture priority and AE lock. If that's not of value, then sure - adding electronics makes zero sense.

I’m a die-hard Rolleiflex-Leicaman. I use the M7 for color film with a polarizer... but if the M7 didn’t have the ratcheted winding lever (ala all the Ms and the F3!!) I would simply not use that camera.

And for an electronic Rolleiflex... I can’t even begin to imagine the horror...

hap · May 6, 2022

Nitroplait said:
The notion that Leica lenses are superior to anything is absurd!
I own 7 leica/leitz branded lenses, and the only one I prefer over all the other lenses I own (around 25) is my Elmar-M 50/2.8 - and obviously for very subjective reasons.
I have at least 4 Nikkor lenses and one Voigtlander lens I like that follows on my favorite list before Leica appears again.

The lenses makes the system, and Nikon has as much or more to offer as any.

The Nikon FM(x)/FE(x) bodies are not made with the same solidity as the Nikon F(x) or Leica R8/9, but that does not mean they are less robust for entusiast useage.
If the feel of the camera has high importance, a Nikon F3 is exceptionally smooth and still more compact than an R8/9. If functionality is an priority, N8008s/F801s cameras are given away for close to free.
If Leica is what is wanted, only Leica can give you that.

The tiring arguments related to the advantages of mechanical cameras are almost unbearable to hear. A CR 1/3N (3v) lithium battery has 10 years shelf life and how much space does that occupy in the bag? (besides LR44s are available everywhere).

if you buy into the Sover Wong song....he always prefers the lithium batteries as not leaking. Claims all the rest leak.

Les Sarile · May 6, 2022

xkaes said:
If I had to pick one camera to "go anywhere" it would be my Minolta SRT102. When "the electricity goes out" -- and it always does -- it will still work.

If you weren't aware, the FM3A has all shutter speeds available when batteries die which is just like every other fully mechanical camera. It is the only aperture priority capable camera ever made with this ability.

Sirius Glass · May 6, 2022

benjiboy said:
I would prefer the Nikon because of the price and the availability of the lenses.

M-88 said:
Probably a good idea for Huss to chime in. IIRC he used to own one of these Leicas with weird shape. BTW, Zenit 212K just as weird as R8/R9, how come it didn't get mentioned?

In all seriousness, I'd go for Nikon. I simply see no reason for lugging around an oversized Leica, whose lenses cost as much as a used car and in the end, performance difference between it and isn't going to live up to its price.

+1

hap · May 6, 2022

If it's electric, it may not work in California...

Moose22 · May 6, 2022

hap said:
Yes, Huss you bought the P that I was stalking. I snoozed and loozed. However, I did locate another one at the right price.

I got my second F3 in part because it had the P screen.

Strange, I had 2, sold one of them to a younger guy who wanted an SLR and really wanted my F3 because who needs two F3s? Then an F3T with a P screen came up and I got it just for the screen, but also because it's a whole lot of camera for the buck.

So now I have 2 again, and the P screen is really nice for some of my favorite uses. Just enough lines on it to keep the horizon level or a vertical line vertical but not cluttered.

Moose22 · May 6, 2022

hap said:
if you buy into the Sover Wong song....he always prefers the lithium batteries as not leaking. Claims all the rest leak.

In his defense, he's seen a lot of cameras that need repair. Alkaline do leak if you leave them long enough, and the make a mess. He's seeing cameras needing repair and restoration, so he's getting a skewed sample of cameras that includes many that had alkaline batteries left in them for way too long as they were neglected or left to sit for years.

Moose22 · May 6, 2022

hap said:
If it's electric, it may not work in California...

Even if it works, it'll cause cancer.

McDiesel · May 6, 2022

NB23 said:
I’m a die-hard Rolleiflex-Leicaman. I use the M7 for color film with a polarizer... but if the M7 didn’t have the ratcheted winding lever (ala all the Ms and the F3!!) I would simply not use that camera.

And for an electronic Rolleiflex... I can’t even begin to imagine the horror...

It's not that bad! I have a FW and the built-in meter is actually quite good. And even if you insist on zero electricity then just take the battery out, similar to an M5/M6.

beemermark · May 6, 2022

reddesert said:
I don't have an opinion about the original question. They seem like rather different cameras so I'm not sure why they would be directly compared. The Leica R flange-focal distance is 47mm and the Nikon F mount is 46.5mm. So one reason you don't hear about people converting Nikon lenses to mount on a Leica is purely physical: they wouldn't reach infinity focus without extra glass in the adapter. Leica lens to Nikon body works though. The rest probably has to do with reputation and relative cost.

So why do people pay the high prices for the Leica lenses to convert to Nikon when they could just buy the Nikon lens in same focal/aperture and save the money for film? I've used Nikon for over 40 years and (in film) have (or used to have) just about every body from the F2 to the F5. More Nikon lenses than I can count. I generally shoot my Leica SL2 or R7. At some point I realized I only need 3 or four lenses. Most of the Leica lenses aren't that expensive unless you want fast.

Nikon FM3a or Leica R8 / R9

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