Nikon FM felt seals on door

David Jones · Jul 2, 2015

I noticed that a seal kit I bought doesn't include these. The seals on my fm were very gooey and so I cleaned them off after ordering the kit but I don't remember seeing the felt seals. I was looking on the net and noticed that there should be one under the frame counter reset and one near the latch. I wonder why they aren't included in the kit? Don't they make a difference?
Thanks
Dave

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Do you mean you removed the felt seals as well as the foam seals?

David Jones · Jul 2, 2015

I may well have done. I must have removed them with all the goo that had transferred to the door! I noticed another kit included them. I just thought everything would be there in the new kit and didn't really worry about what I was removing! I bought a kit from someone else for my Yashica FX-2 and everything was in that one.

Dave

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Hi Dave

I asked the wrong question not all cameras in a run are necessarily the same, but...

If you have a scrap cassette steal the light trap material it only needs to allow the door to close and keep the light out, use double sided tape.

Or sister, gfriend or wife's hem surplus.

Noel

David Jones · Jul 2, 2015

Thanks, Noel. It is funny as I'm sure I would have noticed an actual seal on there because I suppose a fabric seal would have been fully intact.

Good idea about using the seal from a cassette.

dave

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Hi Dave I've only got one FM to hand and it has no felt and I'd not have removed...

The door has a custom run of foam parallel to the hinge in the grove of the door butted to fill to each edge of door lip. When closed overnight you can see from the witness set this light seals the door hinge.

So the first question was not me trying to make you look bad. There was no felt or velvet on my FM when I got it but there is no provenance on that statement.

Try a film or the custom job above.

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Hi Dave
The 2nd FM has no felt and a similar but wider foam strip in the door edge.
Noel
Edit
One is just below one just above 3,000,000 the major change over.

Steve Bellayr · Jul 2, 2015

One of the silent problems with these older cameras is hidden necessary repairs. Recently, I purchased a Nikon F2 which needed all the seals including the mirror slap foam replaced. I had replaced foam before and even had enough foam however I chose to send it off to have it done. What I was told that since the camera had been sitting for years the shutter was dirty and speeds were off; two things I had not discovered and would not have discovered (all the shutter speeds sounded different and everyone fired). Another issue is that sometimes the foam gets into other parts of a camera and a CLA is needed to remove it. The question to be asked is when do I replace the foam myself and when to have a professional do it? Depending upon your skill level if the camera is a Yashica GSN, for example, I would go ahead and do it as a repair would be more than the camera is worth. If it is an expensive or higher end model which you plan to use regularly I'd have someone else look at it. IMHO

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Steve Bellayr said:
One of the silent problems with these older cameras is hidden necessary repairs. Recently, I purchased a Nikon F2 which needed all the seals including the mirror slap foam replaced. I had replaced foam before and even had enough foam however I chose to send it off to have it done. What I was told that since the camera had been sitting for years the shutter was dirty and speeds were off; two things I had not discovered and would not have discovered (all the shutter speeds sounded different and everyone fired). Another issue is that sometimes the foam gets into other parts of a camera and a CLA is needed to remove it. The question to be asked is when do I replace the foam myself and when to have a professional do it? Depending upon your skill level if the camera is a Yashica GSN, for example, I would go ahead and do it as a repair would be more than the camera is worth. If it is an expensive or higher end model which you plan to use regularly I'd have someone else look at it. IMHO

Your other option was sending it back as not complaint with description... And buy the next eBay special.
Pro camera repairs are frequently worth more than the camera.
If your F2 shutter curtain material is damaged replacement is not economic instead buy another F2 body they are cheap.

If you notice foam deterioration replace immediately if you damage a film sprocket hole clean debris out immediately, shutters can react badly to foam or film shards.

I've seen a FM where the shutter looked like origami.

Replacing foam on GSN may not be meaningful as the PODs don't last long either... If you can replace the POD inspect it with foam...

David Jones · Jul 2, 2015

Thanks, Noel. Maybe mine didn't have any felt seals in the first place. I notice that the hinge seal I was sent is a bit wider than the old one. Sounds like your second one. i suppose the doors are the same so I can use it.

I bought the FM on eBay and my usual test is the light meter against my Gossen and to listen to the very slow speeds. Next I will try a film. I haven't bought a bad camera yet in these regards but the light seals are always useless! I mentioned the FX-2. My brother bought it new in the 70s but the shutter speeds have gone erratic so that one will go to the repair man. It was fine until very recently when he decided to put it in a damp cupboard. Luckily I had the lens!

There is a chap near me that is a pro camera repairer. He said that cleaning up the goo takes a fair bit of time so anything like that I will have a go at. I am actually quite good at fixing things like that. When it comes to anything else I l give the camera to him. I have to say I only take a camera when it actually goes wrong rather than having it serviced. it is a real joy to take a camera that seems useless and have it back working like new. There are certainly many cameras not worth fixing.

Film cameras are quite cheap and it is fun to buy them and try them.

Dave

Xmas · Jul 2, 2015

Check the shutter is not dragging at 1/1000 back open lens off - for can you see a bright light at the top of frame every time.

The FM is a work horse and can take pre AI lenses if you remember to flip up the follower.

David Jones · Jul 19, 2015

Have had another close look and there are the remains of very small felt seals near the door latch but nothing was by the counter reset. I have spotted some 1mm felt camera seal material on eBay UK. It sounds like the right stuff.

Another issue I have is there is a little dust visible in the viewfinder. It is in sharp focus so i thought it was on the focus screen but it doesn't seem to be on inspection. Could it be on the other side of the screen? A repair man job on this camera, I suppose.

Dave

Alex Muir · Jul 19, 2015

I think you can remove the screen in this camera which would allow you to check if the dust is accessible. Instructions should be in the manual. Apologies if you already know this!
Alex

Xmas · Jul 19, 2015

I thought the interchangeable screens were introduced with the FM2?

jimjm · Jul 19, 2015

David - I've got an FM body (#3263119) which I replaced the seals on myself years ago. Very easy job especially since you can remove the doors on these cameras. Used one of John Goodman's light seal kits, which I've since used to re-seal at least a dozen other cameras, all from the same kit. On the back door, mine has a felt seal running parallel to the hinge and a small bit of felt under the tab to engage the counter reset. Nothing else to replace except the foam seals in the door channels and the mirror damper, if needed. Here's a good tutorial : http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/seal/Nikon_FM_FE.pdf

The focus screens on the FM/FE are non-removable. If you have stubborn dust on the bottom of the screen, try a blast of canned air and that may dislodge it. If it's sticky foam from the mirror damper, don't try to wipe it off, it'll probably just smear all over. If the dust is on top of the screen inside the prism, you may just have to live with it if you don't want to disassemble the camera. It may cost more than the camera is worth to have a repairman fix this for you.

Alex Muir · Jul 19, 2015

Xmas said:
I thought the interchangeable screens were introduced with the FM2?

You may well be right. The FE, which came out around the same time as the FM, has interchangeable screens.
Alex.

jimjm · Jul 19, 2015

You're right Alex. The FE had 3 interchangeable focus screens. The FM was the lone model that did not.

David Jones · Jul 20, 2015

Thanks for the replies. I don't think the screen can be removed and its a shame they didn't make it the same as the fe. It is just dust and not anything nasty. It isn't too bad so maybe if the camera needs some work other than light seals I'll get the repair man to have a look.

Does that 1mm felt seal material sound about the right thickness? The ones on the door at the moment are a bit squashed.

Xmas · Jul 20, 2015

Don't fix something that is not broke.
You replace foam cause it will damage the shutter.
Inspect the mirror bumper...

David Jones · Jul 20, 2015

I have already changed the mirror bumper and all the foam seals so they are fine now. they were terrible! I may as well do the latch seals because they don't look too good.

Dave

David Jones · Aug 1, 2015

Funny you mentioned the shutter, xmas.. I took the FM round to the chap who fixes cameras in my town to show him the seals. I said that the shutter speeds sounded right so he tried it and opened up the back. What I hadn't noticed was some gunge on the shutter blades that was visible only when the camera was wound on. It looked like oil but he said there was nowhere for it to come from internally. he held the camera up to the light and he said that I would only get half a photo if I used it! Anyway he sorted it and said that the speeds were spot on now. Cleaning was all it needed. He is a clever chap and used to fix the cameras for the police and military. He said the original FM shutter is more reliable than that in the FM2 which is lightened for higher speed but the rivets can come loose.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 1, 2015

David Jones said:
I noticed that a seal kit I bought doesn't include these. The seals on my fm were very gooey and so I cleaned them off after ordering the kit but I don't remember seeing the felt seals. I was looking on the net and noticed that there should be one under the frame counter reset and one near the latch. I wonder why they aren't included in the kit? Don't they make a difference?
Thanks
Dave

on my FM,I took them off ,cleaned the glue off and just left it that way,worked fine in my cASE YMMV

Sirius Glass · Aug 1, 2015

Neither my Nikon N-75 nor my Nikon F-100 have felt on the doors.

Xmas · Aug 1, 2015

David Jones said:
Funny you mentioned the shutter, xmas.. I took the FM round to the chap who fixes cameras in my town to show him the seals. I said that the shutter speeds sounded right so he tried it and opened up the back. What I hadn't noticed was some gunge on the shutter blades that was visible only when the camera was wound on. It looked like oil but he said there was nowhere for it to come from internally. he held the camera up to the light and he said that I would only get half a photo if I used it! Anyway he sorted it and said that the speeds were spot on now. Cleaning was all it needed. He is a clever chap and used to fix the cameras for the police and military. He said the original FM shutter is more reliable than that in the FM2 which is lightened for higher speed but the rivets can come loose.

There are three variants at least in FM FM2n series and distortion at rivets due to fatigue is a problem with one pattern.
Foam can damage the shutter you replace on any change in appearance or suffer.
You need to inspect when purchasing for capping.

David Jones · Aug 2, 2015

Ralph- I don't know why I got so worried about those seals. The repair man said that an FE back he had didn't have them. I have just got a bit perfectionist about the light seals, I think, and I don't know why. I have never had a camera with a light leak! I think I just wanted a nice FM as I liked them when I was younger but they were too dear. This camera body has cost me £70 including the purchase price but at least it is all in one piece now (famous last words)! I probably could have got a good one in the first place for less. i probably would have sent it back if I had known earlier but I have had it just a bit too long now. It is a risk buying cameras on eBay. It is a punt unless the seller points out that it has had a CLA.

I expect that the repair man was talking about intense professional use when he mentioned the shutter problems rather than normal picture taking. I read an article about a Fleet Street photographer and he said they used FMs ( I mean before the other FM2 was brought out, not because it was better). I was surprised because I thought it was more of a high end amateur camera. I think the FM2 is probably a better camera apart from the fixed aperture "prong". I don't know why they dropped the ability to use the older lenses.

Dave

Nikon FM felt seals on door

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