Nikon F4s

Mike Kennedy · Jun 28, 2008

Any users? Would you consider it an upgrade from an N90s? How do you like it?

Thanks

Uhner · Jun 28, 2008

It's a big, well-designed hunk of high quality equipment. It is a very good platform for manual focus lenses and I have found the Matrix metering to be quite accurate.

I like the F4, but even so, I traded mine for a F2A and a lens.

Nick Zentena · Jun 28, 2008

I've got two but have never handled the N90S. The Ns are consumer cameras. The F4s is a pro camera.

I find the F4s very well balanced. Great with manual lenses. Fast enough autofocus for me. Supposedly the sports guys find the autofocus slow.

Pinholemaster · Jun 28, 2008

Nikon F5 is a better camera.

I prefer an FM-2 due to weight, or better yet, an F100.

ehparis · Jun 28, 2008

It''s my impression that auto focus in the N90s is faster than in the F4. Keep in mind that the lighter F90s was the preferred backup camera for many photojournalists to their F4's and F5's. The F100 is a better backup and, if autofocus is a must have then I'd prefer it over the N90s and F4. The F4 is too big and bulky to suit me. I personally prefer an F3HP.

PhotoJim · Jun 28, 2008

I own an F4s and an F90x (your N90s is a nomenclatural aberration I've never quite understood the logic of Nikon USA)...

Anyway, I digress.

They are different animals. The F90x is a lot lighter weight. The autofocus is more accurate. The controls are simpler, in a way, despite being electronic. The choice of being able to use an inexpensive MB-10 grip to turn it into a more comfortable camera with larger lenses is a good one.

The F4 is big. It's very big. It's really big. And it's heavy. Did I mention that it's big? Still, I find I don't mind the size a lot of the time. The controls are very analog - knobs and levers instead of teeny buttons. (There are a couple of buttons for AF lock and AE lock.) I actually find that, at first, the F4 is harder to use, but it comes to you before too long. The controls are logical, just a bit alien; there are precious few cameras with this level of sophistication that have knobs. The autofocus is really fast, surprisingly, but not as accurate as the F90x. AF-S lenses work on it, which is a wonderful bonus. You can make the camera smaller if you buy an MB-20 grip (this turns the F4S or F4E into a straight F4), but they are expensive and hard to find. (If you have a cheap one you want to sell, PM me. )

They are different tools for different jobs, really.

Truthfully, my F90x seldom gets used anymore. My F100 and F5 are my primary bodies, but my F3HP and F4S get significant usage despite that.

Colin Corneau · Jun 28, 2008

My F90x (N90x in the USA) was my backup body at the daily I work for, when we shot film everyday.

I'm a big fan of Nikon for well-designed, durable and reliable cameras and this one was no exception. The autofocus was indeed much better than the F4s and the exposure (Matrix, spot or centre-weighted) worked very well, too.

Mine saw a lot of film over the decade or so I had it. It never failed me. I also like being able to take off the battery pack to have a lighter camera when travelling - something you can't do with the F4s.

The F4 is a good camera, just figure out what you will actually use it for and see if its advantages and drawbacks fit into that.

Lee L · Jun 28, 2008

PhotoJim said:
I own an F4s and an F90x (your N90s is a nomenclatural aberration I've never quite understood the logic of Nikon USA)...

Nikon gave US and non-us cameras different model numbers in part to help them combat gray market goods in the US. That made it easy to tell which cameras coming in to Nikon USA for repair were eligible for warranty repairs, and they were real sticklers about it in my experience, which involved handling cameras brought into two different shops in the late 70's early 80's to be sent to Nikon USA for warranty and non-warranty service.

Lee

PhotoJim · Jun 28, 2008

Lee L said:
Nikon gave US and non-us cameras different model numbers in part to help them combat gray market goods in the US. That made it easy to tell which cameras coming in to Nikon USA for repair were eligible for warranty repairs, and they were real sticklers about it in my experience, which involved handling cameras brought into two different shops in the late 70's early 80's to be sent to Nikon USA for warranty and non-warranty service.

Yep, I knew that much - but they didn't continue the logic on the F100, F4, F5 or F6 so the idea wasn't applied very consistently. The F100 in particular is a real outlier.

narsuitus · Jun 28, 2008

Sorry, I have never used the F90/N90; therefore, I cannot compare it to the F4.

However, here are some of the things I like about the Nikon F4.
1. Well-built, heavy-duty, high-quality body
2. Durable and dependable
3. Has a good mixture of manual and automatic features
4. Woks well with older manual focus lenses
5. Woks well with newer auto focus lenses
6. Good balance with long lenses
7. Allows matrix, center-weighted, and spot metering with true AI lenses
8. Allows center-weighted and spot metering with AI converted lenses
9. Works in manual mode with pre-AI lenses
10. Works in manual mode with pre-set Perspective Control lens
11. Works in Program Mode and Shutter Priority Mode with G lenses
12. Works in manual mode with pre-set 28mm f/4 Perspective Control lens
13. Very quiet built-in motor drive
14. Uses standard alkaline AA batteries.
15. Has built-in diopter eyepiece correction
16. Has built-in eyepiece shield
17. Has mirror lock-up feature
18. Has multiple exposure feature
19. Interchangeable view screens
20. Interchangeable viewfinder
21. Viewfinder offers 100% coverage
22. Illuminated viewfinder is great for low-light shooting situations
23. Rail system for interchangeable viewfinder is very secure
24. Has manual and power rewind feature
25. Manual rewind allows leaving the film leader out of the cassette
26. PC electronic flash connection and hot shoe connection
27. 1/250 second top flash sync shutter speed

narsuitus · Jun 28, 2008

Here are some of the things I do not like about the Nikon F4.
1. Too conspicuous for clandestine candids
2. Heavy camera (1404 grams with 6 AA alkaline batteries)
3. Large camera (169 x 139 x 77 mm) (height x width x depth)
4. Auto focus is too slow for fast action shots
5. Battery dependent
6. Requires circular polarizer
7. LCD bleed problem is fairly common
8. Unable to vary the amount of time viewfinder turns itself off due to inactivity
9. Unable to change viewfinder shutter speed increments from 1/2 stop increments to 1/3 stop increments or to full stop increments
10. Unable to change f/stop increments from 1/2 stop increments to 1/3 stop increments or to full stop increments.
11. No provision to store camera with an un-cocked shutter
12. Difficult to manually focus using standard B screen (had to replace mine with a screen that had a split-image focusing aid)
13. Center of standard B screen darkens when shooting macrophotography
14. Inability to change size of auto focus area
15. Inability to change the location of the auto focus area
16. Continuous Silent Speed (CS) setting is not silent. It would be more accurate if it were labeled 'Continuous Slow Speed' because all it really does is lower the firing rate to 1 frame per second

narsuitus · Jun 28, 2008

Here are some of my comments about the F4. I hope they are of some value to you.
· Good studio camera
· Good camera for the times when you only need one body
· It is a professional looking camera that gets a lot of respect
· At first I thought the extra shutter release button was totally unnecessary. However, I found it very beneficial when holding the camera with one hand in portrait orientation and holding a flash unit or a reflector with the other hand.

df cardwell · Jun 28, 2008

The F4 is my favorite for shooting pictures manual focus lenses.

It is much better for MF than newer cameras, and has a better meter and shutter than the F3.

I keep my old F for nostalgia.

The F4 is THE great overlooked camera.

Derek Lofgreen · Jun 28, 2008

I have the F4E. It is big but that's why I like it so much. It actually fits in my hands. All the other 35mm I have shot are too small for my hands. It is steadier in my hands because it is bigger and heavier and the mirror slap is somewhat dampened because of it's size. I love the manual nobs and levers over the auto dials of newer slrs. Auto focus is just fine, maybe not as fast as the F5 or F6 but certanly better than a Canon rebel and the like. It has so many little features built right into it that I don't need any other body unless I take a medium format rig. It is my go to 35mm camera now. And for the cost of a nice F4 today you can't beat the value.

D.

Nick Zentena · Jun 29, 2008

The F4 is heavy on the scale but it fits the hand well. It's also very well balanced.

John Koehrer · Jun 29, 2008

Nick Zentena said:
I've got two but have never handled the N90S. The Ns are consumer cameras. The F4s is a pro camera.

Tell that to all the folks shooting weddings with the N90's. You don't need the bells & whistles to have a pro quality camera. Reliability & durability are what count.

Alan9940 · Jun 29, 2008

Hello Mike,

I own both an N90 and an F4s. The N90 is a very nice camera, but I wouldn't want to see it get banged around much. The F4, however, is built like a tank and could IMHO withstand just about anything you might throw at it. Yes, it's heavy but as others have said it fits the hand well and is very well balanced for such a large camera. The metering system is quite accurate, but can be fooled; no negative really because this applies to most metering systems!

One thing I really like about the F4, compared to the N90 or subsequent F incarnations that came after it, is that it's pretty much a manual camera. IMO the automation that should be there is there and fairly well implemented, but I can still turn dials such as shutter speed and pretty much always know what the camera is doing. I don't like cameras that think for themselves! That said, I'm a Leica M shooter, too, so you'll have to weigh my comments knowing what type of photog I am. Btw, I shoot LF too...nuff said!

Hope this helps; and, good luck!

André E.C. · Jun 29, 2008

A true classic, still a fantastic piece of equipment!

Cheers

André

Christiaan Phleger · Jun 29, 2008

Between my wife and I, we shoot 4 F4s doing wedding photography. She also shoots with an N90s, which I have used from time to time. One point I really Really like about the F4, you can move the camera from Manual to Auto by feel, shifting a lever that's right next to the top shutter button. This makes it way faster. Sometimes during our coverage the light can move from very stable (church) to very unstable, with radical light level shifts. One click over without removing your eye makes a very flexible camera.

Whether or not you start with it in manual and then shift to auto, or the other way around, you can pre-set the shutter speed (even set it while in A!) so when you go to manual its ready at what you want. Other cameras with the LCD settings make you change to M then shift, then go back to A. Too much fiffle, especially when you need to be paying attention to what is happening.

I dare anyone to try to change an F5, F100 or N90s from A to M without removing the camera from your eye, faster than you can do it with an F4. (Can't be done, you can try it tho').

The other great feature is Matrix metering with older lenses, especially useful for flash. The N90 has a few quirks when using older lenses with flash ttl. I've modified some old Ai'ed lenses to Matrix meter, by adding on a small tab to the lens.

narsuitus · Jun 29, 2008

I've modified some old Ai'ed lenses to Matrix meter, by adding on a small tab to the lens.

RidingWaves,

Can you tell me how it is done or point me to a reference that will explain how to do it?

Christiaan Phleger · Jun 30, 2008

Nope, never even seen anybody else do it, in fact, your the first thats taken the bait! I wondered how long it would take someone to ask me..

What you do is add a bit of hard polycarbonate plastic to the side of the black light shield. Remember, this is a mod for Non Ai lenses, so you have to also do the apeture ring. Most of the time, the Non Ai lenses have a fairly large black light shield, you just need to measure how long the piece needs to be, by taking the measurement off of another lens with the same max apeture. If you look into the F4 lens mount, you'll see what the lever is supposed to move, and compare that with an Ai or Ais lens with the the Max Apeture post. Usually I use a piece about 2.5mm thick, by about 4-7mm long, about 3.5mm wide. Bit of epoxy, line it up correctly, using the screw/post on the mount as a guide (the 4-7mm part, this gives a good consistent reference and matches the Nikon specs).
I've done more than several, from 180's down to 24mm. All give accurate Matrix metering, including Matrix flash, that match my Ai/Ais lenses. It seems like a fiddly cludge, and when I first did it I didn't expect it to last more than a few lens changes, but even my first one has lasted at least 5 years of constant use. Use good epoxy I guess.

Christiaan Phleger · Jun 30, 2008

My mod idea came from my desire to use some very well liked older Ai'd lenses that were not quite available in Ai spec. Remembering that the F4 and FA are the only bodies that can Matrix with non-CPU lenses, I stuck my finger in and moved that lever, activating the Matrix symbol in the finder and my tinkering mind.

While Nikon is to be commended for improving the Matrix metering by having the CPU to add more information, the original F4/FA mechanical interface works very well, and as I found out, backwards compatible. This feature alone, to me, makes the F4 far more valuable as a working tool.

I recently tried out an F6, mostly due to my curiosity in how it handles the non-CPU lenses. While my test was brief, and overall was very impressed with the F6, the lens adjustment was very figety and far from fast. Progress I guess..

gr82bart · Jul 1, 2008

Mike Kennedy said:
Any users?

I have 3 F4E's and an F4S. I love all of them and wouldn't trade them in, even for the F5 - yes it has features that I like. If anything, I would skip over the F5 and go for the F6 if I had to.

The F4E is big, the F4 by itself with a grip is actually no bigger than any other camera, so I'm not sure what te issue about size is. The F3, F5 and F6 with drives/battery packs are big and heavy too.

As for this whole autofocus thing, when I bought my first F4E, I also bought the AF Zoom Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 and AF Nikkor 70-210mm f/4.0 which had slow focusing. When the AFS-D lenses came out, I sold those two lenses and bought the AF-S Zoom Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 IF-ED, AF-S Zoom Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED and AF-S zoom Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D IF-ED lenses and have been very happy with their quality and focusing performance

Would you consider it an upgrade from an N90s? How do you like it?

Never had a Nikon N90s, but I would upgrade.

Regards, Art.

oldglass · Jul 1, 2008

Get an F100, it's cheaper (nowadays) and have F5's innards. Want bulk, get the vertical grip, too heavy? take it off...

Colin Corneau · Jul 2, 2008

The F4 is my favorite for shooting pictures manual focus lenses.

It is much better for MF than newer cameras, and has a better meter and shutter than the F3.

This is a REALLY good point...

Nikon F4s

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