Nikon F3 Frame Spacing?

[waffles]

I recently shot two rolls of Kodak T-Max 400, one through a Nikon N80 that I've owned for a couple years, and the other through a Nikon F3 that is new to me. I was quite surprised to see how different the frame spacing is between the two cameras. I also see what I think are more negative flaws coming from the F3. This is the first roll I've shot on the F3 so I wanted to get someone else's opinion who has more experience with this camera before I start troubleshooting

In the picture below, the top strip of film was shot on the N80, and the bottom strip was shot on the F3. First of all, it seems like the frames on the F3 are aligning *not* with the {1, 2, 3, 4, ...} frame numbers, but rather with the {1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, ...} frame numbers. Is that normal for a Nikon F3?

Second, knowing that the camera auto-defaults to 1/80th of a second on frames 00 and 0 (or rather 00A and 0A) I busted out my light meter and took a couple photos with manual metering of some flowers while I was winding the film onto the take-up spool. But the 00A frame is completely gone, the 0A frame is cut in half by film fog, and the 1 frame is blank. I'm trying to remember if I accidental opened the back or release the shutter with the lens cap on ... but I don't remember doing either of those things! I remember shooting all of those frames normally. What else could cause that?

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Where the frame numbers fall in relation to the image depends on how you load the film - how much leader is used when you load it manually. The frame numbers are fixed when the film is made.

With cameras that auto-load the film, there is probably more consistency.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Theo nailed it. Go with what he said.

 

[waffles]

Where the frame numbers fall in relation to the image depends on how you load the film - how much leader is used when you load it manually. The frame numbers are fixed when the film is made. With cameras that auto-load the film, there is probably more consistency.

Ah! That makes sense. So what about the 0A frame being cut in half like that? I never opened the back of the camera and I processed both rolls of film identically. There's almost 4 inches more fog on the leader of the roll that went through the F3 than the leader than went through the N80 ... I don't think the auto-load system can explain that much, can it?

When you load a roll of 35mm film into a manual-load camera, don't you usually wind the camera once to make sure that the film is being taken-up correctly before you close the back? Even doing this on my manual-loading Olympus OM-1, I am always able to use the "0" frame, and I'm able to use the 00 frame at least 75% of the time.

 

[bdial]

On a manual load camera I wind with the back open until the full width of the film is on the take up spool. After closing the camera I usually wind off three frames to avoid any chance of a partial caused by a frame overlapping the exposed leader portion. It's much more important to know that the film is running through the camera correctly, and that you have the un-fogged portion behind the shutter than to worry about what frame is 0 or 1 or whatever.

It's been a while since I've had an N80 in my hands, but I think the F3 is a good bit wider, so all that width means more film exposed at the beginning. I have a motor on my F3, so I usually hit the button until the camera stops with the shutter open trying to make a 10 second exposure of the inside of the lens cap

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... So what about the 0A frame being cut in half like that? ... don't you usually wind the camera once to make sure that the film is being taken-up correctly before you close the back? ...

With all cameras I wind twice after closing the back. However, I've rarely been able to make an image on the 0 frame.

What I think happened is that the film wasn't quite secure. You wound it, but it didn't move immediately. So the light-exposed part of the film (from the back being open) didn't advance. You made the photo, wound on, and then the film moved normally.

 

[waffles]

What I think happened is that the film wasn't quite secure. You wound it, but it didn't move immediately. So the light-exposed part of the film (from the back being open) didn't advance. You made the photo, wound on, and then the film moved normally.

Ahh ... that makes sense. I'm going to shoot a roll of TriX next week and I guess we'll find out.

 

[waffles]

On a manual load camera I wind with the back open until the full width of the film is on the take up spool. After closing the camera I usually wind off three frames to avoid any chance of a partial caused by a frame overlapping the exposed leader portion. It's much more important to know that the film is running through the camera correctly, and that you have the un-fogged portion behind the shutter than to worry about what frame is 0 or 1 or whatever.

I agree. But with the price of film these days its always nice to get a free frame-or-two if you can. Also, you can always use frame "0/0A" as a data frame

 

[Theo Sulphate]

The little Canonet rangefinder models with the quick-load feature (QL) are efficient with film usage: you simply place the leader at a specific position, close the back, and wind. It works very well.

Similarly with the M6, which is amazingly easy to load: the leader is placed through a spring-prong type entanglement, the plate is put back on, and all is good. It also works well and reliably.