Nikon F3 auto exposure query

[Alex Muir]

I have an F3 with standard prism which is quite an early example with a 130.... serial number. If I put it on aperture priority auto and trip the shutter with a low light scene, the camera will set a shutter speed longer than the claimed 8 seconds. The shutter generally, although not always, opens and close for a time the camera determines. This camera is in good condition and had a CLA around three weeks ago.
I recently bought another F3, with the HP prism and a much later example with serial 189..... This one will open the shutter in the same type of lighting, but it simply stays open until closed by turning the shutter speed dial. Other than that, it works as it should, timing auto exposures up to 8 seconds, and it's meter agreeing with the other one.
The manual suggests that the longest speed on auto, or set manually, is limited to 8 secs. Is one of these bodies doing something it shouldn't, or did the spec of this camera change at some stage to prevent it timing speeds longer than 8 seconds?
Thanks for any advice/experience.

Alex.

 

[flavio81]

I think that on auto the camera should use whatever length of exposure time is needed, even if goes beyond 8sec. That is what happens in the typical auto-exposure shutter-priority SLR.

In my view, your 2nd Nikon F3 has some fault and is reading less light than it should on very low-light. If that camera is measuring OK in daylight then the sensor might need calibration - there are about 12 potentiometers for calibration inside the damn machine.

I own a F3 and like it very much but the meter is dead, it died from one day to another without warning. Frankly the meter electronics are unreliable, it's not the first time that i see a F3 with a dead meter in this country. Booo Nikon, booo... My Canon's A-1 (1978), AE-1 (1976) and EF (1973) electronic cameras were much more reliable than the later F3.

Not to mention the amount of dead Nikkormat ELs i see... Which is sad, since the camera is a great one.

 

[Chan Tran]

I don't understand what you described about the F3HP. If you leave it on auto does the shutter close by itself or you have to move the shutter dial off the A setting to get to close? I know there are F3 that would open the shutter longer than 8 sec. in auto mode but mine only open to 8 sec. I actually like that better.

 

[fotch]

I have a F3HP purchased new, a F3 purchase used, and a Nikkormat EL, purchased new, never had meter problems. I don't trust the FG or EMs, all purchased used, as had several crap out.

 

[Alex Muir]

I don't understand what you described about the F3HP. If you leave it on auto does the shutter close by itself or you have to move the shutter dial off the A setting to get to close? I know there are F3 that would open the shutter longer than 8 sec. in auto mode but mine only open to 8 sec. I actually like that better.

The earlier one seems to open and close the shutter with times longer than 8 seconds on auto. The newer one (F3HP) doesn't do this. The shutter opens, but doesn't close until you move the dial off the 'A' position. It does the same as the 'T' setting would if I used that. That's interesting that yours only runs to 8 seconds as well. I just wondered if this was something that Nikon changed during the production run.

Alex.

 

[BrianShaw]

I've never heard about that feature changing throughout the life of the F-3 production.

 

[Chan Tran]

Mine run up only to 8 sec but it does it in A I don't have to turn the dial off A to get to get the shutter to close. I did have an F3 that the shutter open for longer what it should and very erratic. You can't really tell with faster speed unless I put it on the shutter tester. I sold that one. The one I have now which only open the shutter up to 8 sec. on A has very accurate shutter speed as well as meter.

 

[Chan Tran]

I am sorry my memory failed me. I just checked again my F3HP times out at 60 sec. That if if I close the lens cap and close the viewfinder blind so the meter would see no light at all the shutter will close after 60 sec. on A mode.

 

[Les Sarile]

I tested both my F3s and they both determine different exposure time with the lenscap test lasting up to minutes long (4 - 6 minutes) but not predictable. This is why Nikon fixed shutter speed to sync speed for the F3 - and the others with aperture priority, until frame counter gets to 1, when you put in a new roll else it may appear stuck if it was in aperture priority mode with a lenscap on.

 

[Chris G]

What is the ISO set to? At ISO 100, the low end of the usable EV range the meter is EV 1. If you are testing with a lens cap and eye piece shutter closed the EV will be way below this and the well outside the meters usable range, maybe EV -7. Thinking the meter will be accurate in almost complete darkness (outside its usable range) would be a mistake.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/f3manual/detail/detail4.htm

 

[jochen]

Hello,
officially the time during long time exposures only goes up to 8 sec., but indeed the metering systems makes longer times, but they are not calibrated and not reliable. Maybe if the light was too weak, the shutter remains open and can only be closed by turning the time wheel away from A. It makes no sense to take automatic long time exposures because of the Schwarzschild effect.

 

[Alex Muir]

It's seems that, although long exposures can be set by the camera, they are not likely to be reliable. I will stick to seperate metering for night shots longer than 8 seconds, and use the B setting. I have made successful night shots on auto with other cameras that do time accurately exposures of more than 8 seconds. You can also compensate the auto setting to a certain extent. It depends on the film, the subject and how you want the final image to look. Although you might not get the optimum exposure, you generally get something usable.
Alex

 

[benjiboy]

Timed exposures around 8 seconds and longer are meaningless because the film stock usually experiences reciprocity failure, and the exposure time needs increasing to compensate for it.

 

[Les Sarile]

It's seems that, although long exposures can be set by the camera, they are not likely to be reliable.
Alex

I had 2 F3's and not only do they respond differently between each other when it comes to longer than 8 second exposure, but their response also varies each time making it unreliable to use for very long exposures. This also applies to all their other bodies that are aperture priority capable - FG, FE2, FA, FM3A and more modern cameras.

Other brand cameras with aperture priority implement different limits from what I have tested. Canon hard coded a 30 second limit from A-1 to EOS1V. Minolta varies camera to camera up to less than a minute. Olympus OM2, OM2N & OM4 up to minutes reliably. Pentax varies for each model except for their LX. This is the only camera that I have tested that can meter reliably for as long as it takes (I've tested hours long) while monitoring the scene in realtime and adjusting exposure time accordingly.

Since Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Pentax limits the exposure time on their DSLRs, it is likely they do so due to the limitation of the metering circuitry rather than due to film reciprocity or Schwarzschild effect.