Nikon F2-S vs SB vs A

[CMoore]

Any of you Nikon Freaks have experience with all three of these.?
Want to talk about your experience with them...which one (if any) you prefer over the others.?
Thank You

 

[cuthbert]

The SB and AS are more or leess the same, one is non AI, the other AI, both prisms were specifically meant to be used in low light photography.

The A is the AI version of the traditional F2 with photomic head.

Here you can find some info on the DP heads:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/prisms/index2.htm

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/prisms/index4.htm

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/prisms/index7.htm

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/prisms/index8.htm

I personally have a F2A (with DP11 head) and a F2AS (with DP12), while the DP12 is obviously superior in low light for every day shooting I prefer the DP11.

 

[CMoore]

Yeah...thanks for the links. I am, kind of, familiar with all of that (though it never hurts to revisit the info).....I guess what I am really wondering is the different meters in practical application.?
How much "better" is the better meter.?
For example.....Do Owners/Users of both take better pictures when using the more advanced meter.?
Or is it more a matter of the meters being more versatile as the light reaches extremes, not just when the light is "optimum" when most camera meters will do well.....if you know what I mean.
I have the 'S' and the 'A', so I have a natural curiosity about the (advanced cost) of the 'SB' and the 'AS'.
Thank You

 

[Chan Tran]

My first camera was the AS and like the A it has the same type of AI coupling for AI lenses. Same as the A it use ADR instead of the built in aperture scale like the S. The exposure meter is the same as the SB which has 3 LED the +, 0 and - versus the S only 2 LEDs. The exposure indication on the top of the prism is only 1 led which lit up when the 0 in the viewfinder lit up by itself (neither the + or the - LED is lit).

 

[MattKing]

My first camera was the AS and like the A it has the same type of AI coupling for AI lenses. Same as the A it use ADR instead of the built in aperture scale like the S. The exposure meter is the same as the SB which has 3 LED the +, 0 and - versus the S only 2 LEDs. The exposure indication on the top of the prism is only 1 led which lit up when the 0 in the viewfinder lit up by itself (neither the + or the - LED is lit).

Off topic - my apologies.

I am confident that this post makes perfect sense.

I am however entertained by the fact that I, as a non-Nikon user, find it totally nonsensical.

I expect I could create something similar for some of the cameras that I am familiar with, but at the moment, I cannot think of anything.

It always amazes me how much specialized and valuable knowledge is available here on APUG.

 

[Paul Howell]

I started with the SB , when I updated my lens to AI traded the SB in for the AS, I was a working PJ working for the wire services and wanted the ability to meter in low light. As I never owned the standard head don't know how good it was in low light, the SB and AS heads were very good. As I recall there were some complaints that the SB was not very reliable, mine worked just fine for the 3 or 4 years I had it.

 

[CMoore]

I started with the SB , when I updated my lens to AI traded the SB in for the AS, I was a working PJ working for the wire services and wanted the ability to meter in low light. As I never owned the standard head don't know how good it was in low light, the SB and AS heads were very good. As I recall there were some complaints that the SB was not very reliable, mine worked just fine for the 3 or 4 years I had it.

Nice info.....Thanks.
I am fairly new here, so some of you guys might be "well known", but not to me.
When tidbits of (individual members) history seep out via questions on The Forum, I always find it interesting.
You for example.
It would be great, for me at least, if you guys had a link to a short bio of your Job/Life as a pro photographer. A photo-journalist probably has some very interesting Stories/Anecdotes to tell.
No doubt, your background would be more fun to read than say.....a guy that did 27 years in Painters Local 4, San Francisco. I have many fond memories , but those would not have general appeal.
I saw lots of changes in The City. If I had only carried a camera all those years...I could have written a photographic history of downtown.....

 

[cuthbert]

Yeah...thanks for the links. I am, kind of, familiar with all of that (though it never hurts to revisit the info).....I guess what I am really wondering is the different meters in practical application.?
How much "better" is the better meter.?
For example.....Do Owners/Users of both take better pictures when using the more advanced meter.?
Or is it more a matter of the meters being more versatile as the light reaches extremes, not just when the light is "optimum" when most camera meters will do well.....if you know what I mean.
I have the 'S' and the 'A', so I have a natural curiosity about the (advanced cost) of the 'SB' and the 'AS'.
Thank You

In the 70s there was a long race to improve the lightmeters available, and yes it was important as for instance CdS cells have a certain "inertia", gallium and silicone react more quickly to light changes. Also the introduction of LEDs (by Fujica) was due to allow to use metering in low light, where a needle is scarcely visible. Also Ev improve (downward), so from the DP1 range from 1 to 17 they went down to -2, which is a big improvement for night photography.

The "race" was won by Pentax with the LX that is the best camera for low light shooting....but even in 1975 in their K range you could see that with more money you had a better lightmeter, from the simple CdS needle of the K1000/KM to the silicon of the KX to autoexposure of K2 and K2DMD...later with the MX they introduced gallium cells...and you can easily see the leds of the MX reacts more quickly than the needle of a K1000.

https://www.cameraquest.com/ff2finde.htm

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...

I am confident that this post makes perfect sense.

I am however entertained by the fact that I, as a non-Nikon user, find it totally nonsensical.
...

Indeed it does make perfect sense.

He's basically comparing the features of the various Nikon F2 metering heads. It's common to refer to the F2 camera by the type of head mounted on it (e.g. S, SB, A, AS). One you've entered the Nikon realm and learned the terminology, it all makes sense.

Perhaps all the Nikon accessories and lens features contribute to this phenomenon more than with Canon, Leica, etc., in that era.

 

[JW PHOTO]

I have bought and sold hundreds of cameras over my lifespan and the only camera I shed a tear over when I sold it was my beloved F2AS. I used that and an FE2 for some work and pleasure shots. I used mainly Hasselblad, but 35mm for receptions and some environmental portrait work. I remember seeing an ad showing the AS head reading the scene in candle light. I thought hmmmm? Well, I tried it myself and believe it or not the F2AS could meter off the side of a face in candle light. I now have several Nikon body's again, but the only pro-body I have is the Nikon F4s. Lovely camera, but I haven't tried "The focus by candle light" thing with that yet since most of my 35mm stuff is covered by digi now.

 

[Chan Tran]

If selling the F2As brought tears to your eyes then imagine when I found out that someone had stolen my F2AS.

 

[cuthbert]

I remember seeing an ad showing the AS head reading the scene in candle light. I thought hmmmm? Well, I tried it myself and believe it or not the F2AS could meter off the side of a face in candle light.

Yes it can...so the old Canon F-1 with the special "booster" head (a mostrousity though) and the LX, that is probably the best camera for low light.

So yes I would say that for dim light the DP3 and DP12 are the best prism of the F2 era.

 

[CMoore]

At the risk of repeating myself.....Thank You.
More great info.
I have learned a lot...very interesting.
Thanks Again

 

[Paul Howell]

In the 70s there was a long race to improve the lightmeters available, and yes it was important as for instance CdS cells have a certain "inertia", gallium and silicone react more quickly to light changes. Also the introduction of LEDs (by Fujica) was due to allow to use metering in low light, where a needle is scarcely visible. Also Ev improve (downward), so from the DP1 range from 1 to 17 they went down to -2, which is a big improvement for night photography.

The "race" was won by Pentax with the LX that is the best camera for low light shooting....but even in 1975 in their K range you could see that with more money you had a better lightmeter, from the simple CdS needle of the K1000/KM to the silicon of the KX to autoexposure of K2 and K2DMD...later with the MX they introduced gallium cells...and you can easily see the leds of the MX reacts more quickly than the needle of a K1000.

https://www.cameraquest.com/ff2finde.htm

I had considered a LX when I traded up from the F2 to the F3P, only reason I did not make the move was Nikon had much better world wide support, repair and services and ability to rent lens.

 

[flavio81]

Yeah...thanks for the links. I am, kind of, familiar with all of that (though it never hurts to revisit the info).....I guess what I am really wondering is the different meters in practical application.?
How much "better" is the better meter.?
For example.....Do Owners/Users of both take better pictures when using the more advanced meter.?

I can take pictures that are acceptably exposed using no meter. Seriously.

Any good handheld incident-light meter is better than the in-camera meters on those Nikons. Seriously. Get a Gossen or a Sekonic or a Minolta handheld meter. Luxury.

The meters mentioned are all centerweighted meters so the photographer must use its good judgment to compensate for different light situations, so this will matter more than the meter version.

I owned the F2AS and now i own the F2A, both meters are very good so considering that the F2AS is the most expensive one, the F2A is a better deal.

Now, those two are intended for AI lenses. I like pre-AI lenses more, and most AI and AI-S lenses have the "rabbit ears" so a F2 viewfinder that can work with the "rabbit ears", such as the earlier F2 viewfinders, would have more value to me.

Nikon was a serious company so any of those meters, once serviced, are good enough. Most of them require cleaning or service to the ring resistor inside them, otherwise the needle will jump erratically and/or the readings will be erratic. This is easy to do.

Some of the "SB" versions, that is the ones that have LEDs inside, have higher battery consumption so you may prefer the classic CdS-with-needle versions. But at the end, batteries are cheap compared to film and processing and printing!!

Of course, if you were a Canon freak you will be far happier, because the meter on the original F-1 has no problems with dirty ring resistors, jumpy needles, and it is a partial (like a bigger "spot") meter so in easier to rely on than a centerweighted meter. The new F-1 is also free from such problems and you can choose the metering pattern.

But i stand on what i've said -- an external meter is far better. A Nikon F2 with the plain prism is a beauty to see...

 

[cuthbert]

I had considered a LX when I traded up from the F2 to the F3P, only reason I did not make the move was Nikon had much better world wide support, repair and services and ability to rent lens.

Probably it's true, Pentax arrived late in the pro market, but the LX is a camera more capable than the F3 in the size of a FM2...that should be sufficient.

Of course, if you were a Canon freak you will be far happier, because the meter on the original F-1 has no problems with dirty ring resistors, jumpy needles, and it is a partial (like a bigger "spot") meter so in easier to rely on than a centerweighted meter. The new F-1 is also free from such problems and you can choose the metering pattern.

As much as I love the original F-1 it only had a lightmeter with CdS cells that was outperformed in term of reactivity and low light capabilities by the DP3 and DP12, as well as the lightmeter of the Pentax KX, K2, K2DMD (the DMD is predecessor of the LX, it also autoexposes for hours in night shots should the lightmeter deem it necessary) and even by the DDR Praktica B200 that used gallium arsenide cells.

And this is the gargantuan head for night photography Canon offered:

My F-1n with 55mm f1.2 is already about 1.4 kg, I wonder how heavy it would become with the Booster T finder.

 

[flavio81]

As much as I love the original F-1 it only had a lightmeter with CdS cells that was outperformed in term of reactivity and low light capabilities by the DP3 and DP12, as well as the lightmeter of the Pentax KX, K2, K2DMD (the DMD is predecessor of the LX, it also autoexposes for hours in night shots should the lightmeter deem it necessary) and even by the DDR Praktica B200 that used gallium arsenide cells.
.

Yes, this is true. It is a very slow meter in low light.

But you can't bring the KX, K2, K2DMD and LX to the comparison since you're comparing a 1971 canon versus post-1976 cameras...

All F2 meters are faster to react in low light. It's true.

 

[cuthbert]

I don't know if my F2A is faster than my F-1n in low light, they are all old school CdS meters, the K series came out in 1975, and I think the first camera that introduced silicon cells was the Fujica St801 in 1972, just one year after the original F-1.

 

[fstop]

Off topic - my apologies.

I am confident that this post makes perfect sense.

I am however entertained by the fact that I, as a non-Nikon user, find it totally nonsensical.

I expect I could create something similar for some of the cameras that I am familiar with, but at the moment, I cannot think of anything.

It always amazes me how much specialized and valuable knowledge is available here on APUG.

Adrian Cronauer: "Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P."

 

[JW PHOTO]

If selling the F2As brought tears to your eyes then imagine when I found out that someone had stolen my F2AS.

Yes, I can imagine. If some jerk stole it out of your locked car or house it would be terrible. If they same jerk took it while your back was turned and you weren't looking........................well, then it's time for suicide. I had a friend that was shooting the local Coast Guard Festival and really screwed up. People were lining the streets as the parade was going through and he was shooting a few shots with his Hasselblad while his Nikon F3HP w/attached 180mm f2.8 ED Nikkor was resting on the curb next to him. He stepped into the street and walked along just a few steps with the parade shooting the Hasselblad when he turned to walk back guess what wasn't resting on the curb anymore. Yup, I don't think he ever got over that one, but I'm sure he never turned his back again.

 

[CMoore]

I hate that crap (who doesn't)...!!
I always want to trust people, because it makes MY Life better if you know what I mean.?
If i am selling 500 dollars worth of gear on the forum, and you say you are sending a check...I just want to get the gear in the mail...get it on its way...the money is coming, why wouldn't it be, You Said It Was.
It just feels better to live a life like THAT, than to constantly worry about being ripped-off.

Don't get me wrong, i am not naive or stupid...but you get the gist. I like to assume the other guy is as honest as i am.
On this forum, there is probably (i would hope) not too much to worry where trust is concerned.
I would never take that Utopian Attitude with some schlub from Craigslist that i had never met.

It's "funny", no matter the hobby, you never forget the loss of something like that 'AS' you had stolen from you. 30 years could pass, and if you buy another, it feels like you are somehow 'losing' the 300 bux you have to shell out to buy it.....but if it is for another camera, that you have never owned, it is just the cost of getting something you want.
I suppose that is why thieves are so hated, people never forget.......
Here's to Honesty On APUG

 

[Chan Tran]

Yes, I can imagine. If some jerk stole it out of your locked car or house it would be terrible. If they same jerk took it while your back was turned and you weren't looking........................well, then it's time for suicide. I had a friend that was shooting the local Coast Guard Festival and really screwed up. People were lining the streets as the parade was going through and he was shooting a few shots with his Hasselblad while his Nikon F3HP w/attached 180mm f2.8 ED Nikkor was resting on the curb next to him. He stepped into the street and walked along just a few steps with the parade shooting the Hasselblad when he turned to walk back guess what wasn't resting on the curb anymore. Yup, I don't think he ever got over that one, but I'm sure he never turned his back again.

Well at that time I was managing a 1hr photo finishing lab. I brought the camera to work because I tend to go around town shooting pictures then go to work and process my film. I believe one of the employees stole it from my desk when I was out for lunch. I have an idea who that person was but I had no proof.

 

[JW PHOTO]

What you wouldn't give for a hidden camera in the workplace Of course you only want that hidden camera pointed in the opposite direction from you. I hate people that steal and I hope they get there's in the end. I had something similar happen to me while I was in the military and it still pisses me off. Like you, I'm 99% sure who did it and the sad part is he was supposedly my friend. I never accused him of the theft, but I did notice our relationship changed and that's what made me believe he's the one who stole my paycheck, forged my signature and cashed it. Takes all kinds I guess.

 

[ColColt]

Like everything else, folks are different in their likes/dislikes. I have the F2 Photomic, F2A, F2AS and like the first two better due to the needle. I've got into lighting situations where the F2AS's LED's were hard to see due to bright light. The F2A was "Soverized" last year and he put new CdS cells in it and it works beautifully with no lag from light to dark or vice versa and no needle jumping. I'm more fond of the needle.

I will say this, long ago I had the then new FM with the Gallium Photo cells and had no problem with that camera which is very similar to the F2AS in that they both have the LED system.

 

[cuthbert]

I find the position of the LEDs inside the F2AS head more difficult to read than the ones in the FM, but it's a matter of magnification.