Nikon F100 "End" error at frame 30

Joseph Bell · Jul 22, 2022

Good greetings!
While taking pictures with my F100, I noticed the "End" (i.e., End of Roll) error message after shooting the 15th frame. I was able to continue shooting by pushing the shutter a few times - the error message cleared, and all was well until frame 30. Now the "End" error is back, and the camera won't let me take any more pictures. For whatever it's worth, the film in the camera is Cinestill 800. I've put 1000 rolls through the camera, and this happened only once before - also with Cinestill 800!! My plan is to rewind the film prematurely and possibly never put Cinestill in this camera again?! Hopefully it's the film and not the camera, but I wonder if any of you have any insight into my annoying situation?
Sincere thanks for your time and trouble!

Sirius Glass · Jul 22, 2022

The usual question: Did you try fresh batteries?

mshchem · Jul 22, 2022

I had weird issues with an F100, similar IIRC. New battery fixed it. Not sure if that is case here.

mshchem · Jul 22, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
The usual question: Did you try fresh batteries?

You are a faster typist

Joseph Bell · Jul 22, 2022

Ha! Thank you Sirius and mshchem! Indeed I tried fresh batteries to no avail!

Sirius Glass · Jul 22, 2022

mshchem said:
You are a faster typist

I am also better looking.

Joseph Bell · Jul 22, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
I am also better looking.

this is a fun forum

Acere · Aug 7, 2022

The problem you're having is that Cinestill 800 cartridges are not DX coded so, you must set the ISO manually

Joseph Bell · Aug 7, 2022

Acere said:
The problem you're having is that Cinestill 800 cartridges are not DX coded so, you must set the ISO manually

I'm afraid not - I set the iso manually for every roll I put in the camera.

Acere · Aug 7, 2022

Joseph Bell said:
I'm afraid not - I set the iso manually for every roll I put in the camera.

Back to square one... Like you say it may be best to avoid C800 then

AgX · Aug 8, 2022

A explanation may be that the force needed to pull the film out of the cassette is at the verge of the winder switching off. But I would not know why.

Otherwise some bug at frame counting.

BMbikerider · Aug 8, 2022

Acere said:
The problem you're having is that Cinestill 800 cartridges are not DX coded so, you must set the ISO manually

What bearing on the numbering of the exposure does the ISO setting have. That is one thing I have never heard of. The ISO setting is entirely seperate from the frame counter

AgX · Aug 8, 2022

A advanced camera that reads the ISO from the cassette in addition reads its frame number. So the error in this case might not be a generic frame-counting error but instead a error related to a default setting for uncoded cassettes.

250swb · Aug 8, 2022

According to the manual (page 34) with non-DX film the default is that an ERR message is shown only when first loading the film, but goes on to say this can be changed in Custom settings to show ERR briefly each time you switch the camera on. In the confusion when confronted with an ERR are you sure it's not every time you switch the camera on, and the cause simply a Custom menu function? If it seems to appear randomly how many times do you look at the menu screen when you switch the power on before the message has time to disappear? Anyway just an idea, but FWIW it may be an idea to reset the Custom menu anyway.

brbo · Aug 8, 2022

BMbikerider said:
What bearing on the numbering of the exposure does the ISO setting have.

None. But I can't tell you how many times my heart sank when I loaded my XPan with a non-DX coded canister and the camera went dead (because the ISO was set to DX). Now, I don't remember ever trying to set the camera's ISO to DX setting mid roll on a non-DX coded canister to see what happens, I guess you just don't f*ck with this camera for no reason...

BMbikerider · Aug 8, 2022

AgX said:
A advanced camera that reads the ISO from the cassette in addition reads its frame number. So the error in this case might not be a generic frame-counting error but instead a error related to a default setting for uncoded cassettes.

I use plain black enamel painted metal re-loadable cassettes in both my F100 and F80 and never encountered a problem where it stopped winding after a less number of frames had been exposed that what I actually loaded into the cassette.

brbo · Aug 8, 2022

BMbikerider said:
I use plain black enamel painted metal re-loadable cassettes in both my F100 and F80 and never encountered a problem where it stopped winding after a less number of frames had been exposed that what I actually loaded into the cassette.

But that is most probably a totally different scenario (when no DX code at all is present) for the camera in question. DX code is not only for ISO, but also for number of exposures and exposure latitude properties of the film in the canister.

It might (and probably is) well be an intentionally programmed code path to throw an error when a canister with DX code for 24 exp. reaches 30th frame, because this should not happen. If Cinestill canisters are not DX-coded properly or there is a problem of reading their DX code in some cameras, this could trigger the error message.

I'll try my F80 to see if I can get the camera to throw the same error with a 12/24 exp DX code after 15/30 shots...

Acere · Aug 8, 2022

BMbikerider said:
What bearing on the numbering of the exposure does the ISO setting have. That is one thing I have never heard of. The ISO setting is entirely seperate from the frame counter

Agreed, what I meant to say is that the none DX coded cartridges won't tell the camera the ISO or how many exposures the roll has.

Huss · Aug 8, 2022

I forget if the Cinestill 800 was DX coded when I used it. it is now according to their website:

800Tungsten High Speed Color Negative Film, 35mm

Motion picture film for still photographers! CINESTILL 800Tungsten is a unique color film for still photographers. This ISO 800 speed tungsten balanced color negative film is based on the same gold standard motion picture technology used by top cinematographers around the world. Designed for...

cinestillfilm.com

I stopped using it because my last few rolls came pre-fogged… Which was a bummer because I like the film. It did mess up the ISO reader on my M7- even though I set it manually it would flash a ISO 5000 (If i recall correctly) message as the markings on the cassette was throwing things off. Even though it flashed that message it still exposed correctly for the manually set ISO.

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2022

Acere said:
The problem you're having is that Cinestill 800 cartridges are not DX coded so, you must set the ISO manually

What's the link between Cinestill 800 not being DX coded and an error at frame 30 in an F100?

This question is open to any others familiar with an F100

Thanks

pentaxuser

brbo · Aug 8, 2022

brbo said:
I'll try my F80 to see if I can get the camera to throw the same error with a 12/24 exp DX code after 15/30 shots...

Nikon F80 doesn't read the number of exposures from DX code. If Nikon F100 is the same (only has one row of contacts for reading DX code), then this error is not related to DX code...

Acere · Aug 8, 2022

pentaxuser said:
What's the link between Cinestill 800 not being DX coded and an error at frame 30 in an F100?

This question is open to any others familiar with an F100

Thanks

pentaxuser

Because the DX code tells the camera how many exposures the roll is, without it the camera is blind to ISO & exposure information. So, the lack of a DX code maybe an issue don't you think? BTW I do have an F100 an F80 and I'm just trying to be helpful.

pentaxuser · Aug 8, 2022

Acere said:
Because the DX code tells the camera how many exposures the roll is, without it the camera is blind to ISO & exposure information. So, the lack of a DX code maybe an issue don't you think? BTW I do have an F100 an F80 and I'm just trying to be helpful.

OK thanks. I wasn't implying your intentions were not of good intent, I was just curious about the F100's internal link that was connected to the problem

I don't have an F100 but in none of my cameras is there this link to frame counting and refusal to take the film further than frame 30

I can see why without a DX code a camera has to revert arbitrarily to say an ISO of 100 this rendering a problem with exposure if the owner doesn't set the speed dial correctly for the film but stopping the film at frame 30 just doesn't seem to be likely link. If it makes sense to Nikon to build in a mechanism to prevent wrong exposure by not allowing the film to be used then I wonder why it doesn't stop the film at the start

None of it makes much sense to me if the F100 does what you think it does

Can any other F100 user chime in here to help settle the matter?

pentaxuser

Acere · Aug 8, 2022

The only thing I see about DX coded reading error in the Customs Functions menu is #5 but this is just a warning when to alert the user of non DX coded films.

#5: DX reading error warning
0: After film loading (default)
1: when the power switch is on

Here's a link to all of the F-100's 22 custom functions

Nikon F100 - 22 Custom Settings

Huss · Aug 8, 2022

If the F100 works fine with other films and only has problems with Cinestill, I'd just stop using Cinestill in that camera.

Nikon F100 "End" error at frame 30

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