Nikon D7100 Permanent B&W setting?

F4U

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I'm not interested at all in digital photography. That said, i have a Nikon D7100 that I thought i could pressed it into use as an "exposure meter" for B&W film use. I've already discovered the blasted thing won't let you set it for any film slower than ASA 100. But apparently there is also no way to turn it into a B&W camera ONLY, without having to shoot a picture and then mess with the menu to find that picture and convert it, on a one-by-one basis. Is there a setting to make it shoot in B&W in the first place on every shot? Thank you.
 

koraks

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In the user manual on numbered page 105 (133 of the pdf file) it shows how to put the camera in Monochrome mode: https://download.nikonimglib.com/archive2/Wt74B00WmPdp01GF7sU080xUqy56/D7100_(En)03.pdf

You can furthermore set toning and filter settings, which is addressed in subsequent pages.

AFAIK the Picture Control setting is not changed automatically by the camera between shots.
Note that such settings will affect JPEG files, and not RAW, since RAW is, well, raw, so will always be an encoded RGB image. JPEG is an in-camera conversion, so this can be subject to all manner of 'beautification'.
 

Disappointed_Horse

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Koracs is correct. Also, JPEG picture control settings are saved in the User 1 and User 2 settings on the mode dial, if you program those.

If you aren't too keen on the standard Monochrome picture control, you can download others at https://nikonpc.com/. I like the "Tri-X B&W" picture control available there, although I am not certain it actually bears much resemblance to actual Kodak Tri-X.
 

koraks

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nmp said:
I would be surprised if it makes a difference in spot meter reading whether one uses regular color mode or monochrome mode so you needn't shoot in monochrome at all for the express purpose of using it as an exposure meter.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I assumed the question about a permanent monochrome mode was disjunct from the intention to use the camera as a light meter.
I also suspect that the metering system may not compensate for any color filter settings used in monochrome mode, although it's conceivable Nikon did implement some kind of intelligence for this purpose.
 

Chan Tran

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nmp said:
I would be surprised if it makes a difference in spot meter reading whether one uses regular color mode or monochrome mode so you needn't shoot in monochrome at all for the express purpose of using it as an exposure meter.

:Niranjan
Click to expand...

I am quite sure that it doesn't make a different in the spot or any reading if you set it in monochrome mode. It may make the resulting JPEG image darker or brighter but the meter readings of the same scene would still be the same. Any settings in the picture controls may alter the resulting JPEG but not meter readings.
So if you use the camera simply as meter that is you point the camera at the scene and use the meter readings then it doesn't matter. If you take a picture then examine the result then adjust the exposure until you get the result you want then use the settings for that picture then it may make a difference.
 
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nmp

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This is around 10 year old camera (I have one) - I doubt they were making them "intelligent" then. All those Picture Control modes that you showed are done after the picture is taken. One can easily check though by changing the modes and see if it moves the meter reading with camera on a tripod. They should change the histograms, however. So, instead of using the meter reading, one can use the histogram as a guide if correct exposure is obtained. Obviously that would require one to shoot more than one picture to place the histogram properly in the center. Most times that is how I shoot regular pictures anyway, even though it is not quite accurate as the histogram is based on jpeg and I only shoot in raw.

:Niranjan.
 
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F4U

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YES! Thank you. This will take a lot of the guesswork out of figuring WTH is a good film speed for my Xray film. So far I haven't been able to nail down one to save my life. And if you can't get a handle on that variable, how can you pin down a developing time?
 

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You'll get MUCH better response if you start a new thread or two asking about film speed and processing of XRay film.
 

koraks

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BradS said:
You'll get MUCH better response
Click to expand...

Well, more response, for sure. Better...depends on how you look at it, I think.

nmp said:
This is around 10 year old camera (I have one) - I doubt they were making them "intelligent" then.
Click to expand...

Nikon's metering system has been relatively advanced for a long time, and while the B&W conversion does indeed take place after the shot was taken, the camera 'knows' that it's set to B&W mode. So the possibility that it takes the picture controls into account during metering is there. However, I do agree that the odds are kind of slim; Nikon probably didn't bother with this added software complexity.

F4U said:
YES! Thank you. This will take a lot of the guesswork out of figuring WTH is a good film speed for my Xray film.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've used a digital camera for similar things in the past. Not necessarily simulating spectral response, but as a glorified light meter, for sure.
 

Chan Tran

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As far as I know Nikon doesn't change the exposure for the raw file (whether you want to save as raw or not it still creates the raw file first in the buffer) the picture controls only change how the conversion from raw to jpeg is done.
 
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F4U

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BradS said:
You'll get MUCH better response if you start a new thread or two asking about film speed and processing of XRay film.
Click to expand...

There's a trillion posts and different film speeds and developers on the subject of making x ray film work for general photography, and a lot of them are good. But throwing these old shutters into the mix means everybody has their own technique for their camera. Using the D7100 as a light meter and then setting the camera the same way will be helpful in finding that "correct" rating.
 

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I use my Sigma SD9 as a light meter, like the D7100 and most if not all digital cameras the lowest ISO setting is 100. I too have a box of 4X5 X ray film that I need to test to find best ISO. To shoot a ring around I plan on starting the ring at ISO 6 and work up to 100, so one sheet at 6, one at 12, one at 24, 50 then 100 for a total of 5. I have a several handheld meters that go as low as 6. If I wanted to shoot with my Sigma, or for matter a Sony digital I would have to set the ISO at 100, meter and count down - 5 stops then shoot and expose for 4 stop ect then develop. Once I have the E,I to meter with a digital body I would just count down the number of stops. Most seem to use an E.I of 6 or 12, depending on the developer. To shoot zone, well, without a denstomser I would need to shoot a whole ring of 8 or 9 sheets to find the ISO that provides texture from Zone III to Zone VII. I have a 50 sheet box so I might.
 

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I'm not sure how you would go about convincing the D7100 to respond with the same or similar spectral sensitivity as X-ray film.
If there is a way to make the jpeg on the back screen emulate that, the D7100 could be useful with respect to visualizing the results, but I'd be surprised if the metering system can be adjusted to respond the same way.
That spectral sensitivity seems to be one of the major challenges of metering specifically for X-ray film.
 

Chan Tran

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I think with the D7100 you can set the exposure compensation to +4 and ISO 100 and the meter will read the same as 6. From ISO 100 to 6 is only 4 stops and not 5 right?
 

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if You have the IR cut filter removed, you can get into the IR range, and filter X-ray is past IR on the spectrum and even a UV-vis-IR conversion would not capture x-rays though. Meter will be off 5 stops at 850nm (IR) in bright sun. In anything other than bright sun, your guess is as good as mine since we cannot see IR and and not even a full spectrum sensor can see x-ray.

To Make it shoot B+W only, have the Bayer filter removed or do it yourself. Then you only get luminance information on the sensor. the meter will be accurate for the sensor but I doubt if the information it provided would be helpful to any other camera because its response would be off by the density of the bayer filter (typically 2 stops).

but, if you are looking for a light meter - just buy a light meter. A olde GossenLuna Pro F will go down to ISO 2 and show exposures measured in hours, do flash or ambient, reflected or incident light. There is a spot meter attachment available for it, as well as a fiber optic probe to read off of a ground glass.

Although I am not interested in Film at all, I still use one left over from the 20 years I had no choice but to work with silver salts and chemicals to make pictures. Works great for everything.
 

MattKing

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X-ray film itself has very little/no sensitivity to X-ray light. The film is/was used in machines that used phosphors to respond to X-rays by absorbing the X-ray and responding by emitting light in the sensitivity range for which the film was designed.
 

Paul Howell

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Chan Tran said:
I think with the D7100 you can set the exposure compensation to +4 and ISO 100 and the meter will read the same as 6. From ISO 100 to 6 is only 4 stops and not 5 right?
Click to expand...

Yep, I had the same thought, with my old Sigma can be compensated 3 stops, so -3 would OP down to ISO 12, 4 would 12.
 
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F4U

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So does this mean that if I set my D7100 to 100, then all I have to do is figure out how to set the exposure compensation, to -2, then it will effectively be metering at ASA 25?
 

koraks

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Rockaway Studios said:
if You have the IR cut filter removed, you can get into the IR range, and filter X-ray is past IR on the spectrum and even a UV-vis-IR conversion would not capture x-rays though.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of confusion going on here.
IR is longer wavelengths than visible light (=lower photon energy). xray is (much) shorter wavelengths than vis (=much higher photon energy). It's all electromagnetic radiation (or photons/electrons, depending on the theoretical angle you take), but the wavelength/frequency is dramatically different.
There's no relation between the IR cut filter on a camera and anything involving xray film.

(Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/EM_Spectrum_Properties_edit.svg)
As @MattKing points out, x-ray film is not intended to be exposed directly with x-rays. It would require an x-ray dosage that would be similar to standing on top of the Chernobyl reactor at the moment it blew up. In reality, x-ray film is/was used by exposing a scintillation screen with x-rays. This screen, employing phosphors to emit light in response to x-ray bombardment, effectively turns the x-ray into visible light, notably with a pronounced peak in the cyan/green visible spectrum. It's this peak that's usually captured by green-sensitive x-ray film.

By the physical nature of silver halide ions, virtually all photographic film is also sensitive to UV light and shorter wavelengths (down into x-ray territory), but practical considerations generally stand in the way of using those wavelengths for imaging.
 

koraks

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F4U said:
So does this mean that if I set my D7100 to 100, then all I have to do is figure out how to set the exposure compensation, to -2, then it will effectively be metering at ASA 25?
Click to expand...

The other way around - set the meter to +2, not -2.
Or you can meter the scene at ISO 100 and open up the aperture 2 stops from the Av/Tv combination that the Nikon gives you; this also results in an equivalent exposure for 25ISO. Or use a shutter speeds that's 4x longer. Etc.
 

Chan Tran

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F4U said:
So does this mean that if I set my D7100 to 100, then all I have to do is figure out how to set the exposure compensation, to -2, then it will effectively be metering at ASA 25?
Click to expand...

you have to set to +2 not -2..
 

Paul Howell

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My thinking is that despite the differences in spectrum sensitivity, once you find the E.I setting that matches X ray film and a given developer along with time and temperature you should get accurate meter readings. I should think about a developer, I need to look up the past threads to see what is being used.
 
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