Nikkormat frame spacing

blockend · Nov 5, 2015

Of my four Nikkormats, the nicest two have frame spacing issues. These aren't terrible, no overlapping or joining frames, just different width gaps which can complicate scanning in particular. Ironically my beaten up Niks have perfect spacing!

Question: Is correcting frame spacing a mechanical tweak or a new parts issue? I'm thinking of having my best Nikkormat CLA'd and getting the meter updated, and frame spacing is on my list if it doesn't mean unrealistic expense. I'm willing to strip the camera down myself if it's a adjustment issue, not so if it's a replacement job.

Xmas · Nov 5, 2015

blockend said:
Of my four Nikkormats, the nicest two have frame spacing issues. These aren't terrible, no overlapping or joining frames, just different width gaps which can complicate scanning in particular. Ironically my beaten up Niks have perfect spacing!

Question: Is correcting frame spacing a mechanical tweak or a new parts issue? I'm thinking of having my best Nikkormat CLA'd and getting the meter updated, and frame spacing is on my list if it doesn't mean unrealistic expense. I'm willing to strip the camera down myself if it's a adjustment issue, not so if it's a replacement job.

It is a very bad symptom most probably caused by lack of use and gummy lube.
Try firing 1000 frames with thumb on sprocket shaft to create slight drag then try a test film.

You have confessed to being bad:
40 hail Marys

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 5, 2015

As Noel knows I also have 4 Nikkormats.
One is a Nikon EL2, still the body of a Nikkormat.
It happened the same as yours. It is the take-up spool that gets stiff with lack of use.
Try yours, mine looked to be ratcheted.

Use a dummy roll to wind on and rewind a few times just as Noel said.

BTW, what "updates" do you want on your meter?
Unless the CDS cells are dying, the only thing that might go wrong is the foam at the top of the "+" side that has gone to goo.

blockend · Nov 5, 2015

Thanks for the replies. I suspect the excellent condition of my best Nikkormats is not unrelated to their lack of use before I bought them! I'll give both a serious workout and see if things improve. Regarding the meter, only one of my Mats has a working meter, the FT2 (a well used and bashed camera) so any metering in the others would be an improvement. In truth, in camera metering is one of my least used benefits, and I shot my last five slide films in a Nikkormat sunny 16 and they were fine.

Xmas · Nov 5, 2015

Even a working Weston II with invercone dome and filter is cheap, and way more precise than in camera meters for slide film.

blockend · Nov 5, 2015

Xmas said:
Even a working Weston II with invercone dome and filter is cheap, and way more precise than in camera meters for slide film.

Yes, I was much encouraged by a pinhole camera exhibition that used 10 x 8 chromes! I tend to use an iphone app and unless the light changes, shoot at that setting. It seems to work.

gone · Nov 5, 2015

The Nikormats I've owned w/ working meters gave perfect exposures. Not sure I agree w/ the comment about in camera meters, as the meters on my later Nikons that had center weighted, matrix AND spot were the best meters money could buy. Again, perfect exposures every time, if you knew where to put the meter circle. That's the deal w/ any camera that has match needle, center weighted metering like the Nikkormats, just understanding how the meter operates. No way would I trust a selenium celled meter like the Westons in low light.

You might want to ck your 'mats that have non working meters and see if you can get them to work. Three out of four times I am able to get them working by cleaning up the battery contacts, putting a fresh battery in, and spraying some electrical cleaner into the gaps on the shutter speed ring on the front and moving it back and forth to clean up the contacts in there. A Nikkormat w/ a working meter is a sweet camera! The FT2 was always my favorite Nikkormat until I bought a beater FTn, and it was just as good. Every model is a wonderful camera.

blockend · Nov 5, 2015

One more thing, I can't remember what the ring in front of the shutter speed does on the FT, the spring loaded one that moves an aperture scale. It isn't like the FTN or FT2. Nothing on line either.

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 5, 2015

As I understand it the original FT had to be manually indexed by matching the ASA/ISO scale to the max aperture in use.

John_Nikon_F · Nov 5, 2015

Yes, you have to depress the spring-loaded lever, then rotate the pin to match it to both the film speed and the maximum aperture of whichever lens you're using. One thing, if you're good at soldering, you could always put the nicer top and bottom covers on the bodies that work properly. That won't work on an FT2, if the nicer condition bodies are an FT and an FTn, though. I do think that Pacific Rim Camera here in the states has NOS FT2 cosmetic parts, so, it's not like the parts aren't available.

-J

Xmas · Nov 5, 2015

momus said:
The Nikormats I've owned w/ working meters gave perfect exposures. Not sure I agree w/ the comment about in camera meters, as the meters on my later Nikons that had center weighted, matrix AND spot were the best meters money could buy. Again, perfect exposures every time, if you knew where to put the meter circle. That's the deal w/ any camera that has match needle, center weighted metering like the Nikkormats, just understanding how the meter operates. No way would I trust a selenium celled meter like the Westons in low light.

You might want to ck your 'mats that have non working meters and see if you can get them to work. Three out of four times I am able to get them working by cleaning up the battery contacts, putting a fresh battery in, and spraying some electrical cleaner into the gaps on the shutter speed ring on the front and moving it back and forth to clean up the contacts in there. A Nikkormat w/ a working meter is a sweet camera! The FT2 was always my favorite Nikkormat until I bought a beater FTn, and it was just as good. Every model is a wonderful camera.

Your 1st para post is a my daddy is bigger than your daddy post.
If you are shooting transparency for projection or contact printed cine you use a dome on nose of subject.
Or at the least the last film 35mm pro cine shoot I saw 2012 fall were still using a dome before each take.
I don't bother with batteries in F2/DP-1, FM, or FM2n with E6.

blockend · Nov 6, 2015

John_Nikon_F said:
Yes, you have to depress the spring-loaded lever, then rotate the pin to match it to both the film speed and the maximum aperture of whichever lens you're using. One thing, if you're good at soldering, you could always put the nicer top and bottom covers on the bodies that work properly. That won't work on an FT2, if the nicer condition bodies are an FT and an FTn, though. I do think that Pacific Rim Camera here in the states has NOS FT2 cosmetic parts, so, it's not like the parts aren't available.

-J

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping the time spent winding on and generally spinning the take up spool and sprocket pin will free things up a little. If not I may have to take your advice. It's slightly frustrating as both the problem ones are genuinely mint condition and one of them is like out the box new, not even a base mark or thumb print, which considering it's a pre-67 FT is remarkable. They now feel really smooth so I'll see what's up after the next film.

Xmas · Nov 6, 2015

The problem is normally in (side) the sprocket shaft!

If exercise does not work you could try an hour or two in warm airing cupboard followed by exercise that is the last ditch before real CLA...

blockend · Nov 6, 2015

Xmas said:
The problem is normally in (side) the sprocket shaft!

If exercise does not work you could try an hour or two in warm airing cupboard followed by exercise that is the last ditch before real CLA...

I don't know if you've opened one up, but is the sprocket wind shaft oiled or greased inside, or is it a plain plastic bearing?

Xmas · Nov 6, 2015

The Nikon shutters from 47 or so we're Barnack clones, there have been a lot of variation since then so don't know what variation you have.
But getting a sprocket shaft out is not necessarily going to be easy.
If you detected a difference after excercise you should be ok.

The advice was generic Leicas, canons, FSU, etc.,... and Nikons don't like sitting on shelves.

John Koehrer · Nov 6, 2015

Nikkormats use a vertical(Copal?) shutter.

John_Nikon_F · Nov 6, 2015

^Yes. A Copal Square S shutter. Multi-bladed vertical shutter. Same shutter as what's in the Nikon FM and FE, the Pentax K2, the Canon EF (I think), the Konica Autoreflex T/TC series, maybe the Minolta XE series, etc. Also saw use in the Vivitar 450sl M42 mount camera. A modernized version was used in cameras as new as the Nikon N90/F90 series, as well as the F100 and the FM3a.

-J

Xmas · Nov 7, 2015

Xmas said:
The Nikon shutters from 47 or so we're Barnack clones, there have been a lot of variation since then so don't know what variation you have.
But getting a sprocket shaft out is not necessarily going to be easy.
If you detected a difference after excercise you should be ok.

The advice was generic Leicas, canons, FSU, etc.,... and Nikons don't like sitting on shelves.

Oops productive tuxt error

For shutter read sprocket

So sorry

blockend · Nov 18, 2015

Update! A few hundred shutter fires later the spacing is much, much improved! Out of a 36 exposure roll only three or four frames are even slightly off centre, and then by hardly a millimetre. No stripping down required, just plenty of shutter action and film advancing. I guess those few will clear up given sufficient use.

Moral of the story is if you have an old Nikon with uneven frames, give it a workout!

dynachrome · Nov 18, 2015

When using a Nikkormat FT I found it convenient to use different focal length lenses which have the same speed. One set might be a 35/2.8 + 55/2.8 + 135/2.8. A second set might be a 35/2 + 50/2 + 85/2. Some of the 55/3.5 Micro Nikkors stop down to f/32 but I could only get them to stop down to f/22 on the Nikkormat FT. Another set I tried was a 28/3.5 + 55/3.5 + 135/3.5.

Nikkormat frame spacing

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