Nikkor-W 210mm f/5.6: Some questions

[cayenne]

Hello all,
I'm a bit of a noob....I just got this Nikkor-W 210mm lens, that appears to be in really mint shape off eBay. I'm actually using this on a Shen Hao 6x17 medium format view camera, but posted here due to the LF lens questions.

First, this came without lens caps, does anyone have links to resources to buy front and rear lens caps for this? Substitues? I"m not sure how to find the sizes I need for this lens.

Second and this is more of a comment with regard to the Copal 1 shutter that came with it.I thought at first was broken.
I just checked and my first 2 lenses for this camera, both Nikkor lenses (90mm and 150mm) came with Copal 0 shutters.

On those, I can flick the switch that opens the aperture, and when open I can change the aperture slider and see the blades move.

I can cock the shutter and it stays cocked till I trip the shutter either with my finger or the cable release.

This Copal 0 shutter acts MUCH differently. First...when I hit the switch to open the aperture, it opens fully and does not change when I change the aperture setting.

I then tried to cock the shutter and it immediately trips. This really puzzled me. I did notice, however, that the hole to screw in a cable release is much different than my previous shutters...those screw in to more of an external mechanism to the shutter housing.
This new lens shutter, has a hole that goes INTO the shutter housing, so I played a hunch and screwed in a cable release. And with this I could trip the shutter without cocking it first!! I checked the different shutter speeds and using the cable release it did seem to fire at different times.

I then put into bulb mode...and with cable release held...I could hold open the shutter, and adjust the aperture and see it move.

I took out the cable release and then tried the shutter (cocking lever I thought) at the different times and the immediate shutter trip did seem to work at different timings...yay!

I could hold the shutter open with the cocking level in bulb...

SO, I'm guessing this is just somehow a different Copal shutter mechanism than I'm used to.

Can someone give me some information about this?

It seems you do not cock this shutter before firing...it fires immediately either with the cable release, or moving what I thought was the shutter cocking lever. This is normal for some shutter mechanisms?

Is this just a difference between Copal 1 and Copal 0? (I thought size was the differentiator).

I did notice that my other two lenses seemed to have Nikon branding on the shutters..this one doesn't seem to have a brand on it, it is only marked as "for Wista".

Anyway, it seems to work but I'd like some info or maybe links if ya'll could so I could learn more about what I have and the use.

It seems with this shutter, there's no real good way to get a preview of DOF with aperture set when you open the lens for focusing?

Anyway, hope I"m describing what I see clearly enough.

Thank you in advance for any education ya'll can throw my way.

cayenne

 

[B.S.Kumar]

You have a Copal press shutter made for Wista. This was an option for buyers in Japan. The shutter has an interlock cable socket. When a holder is inserted, the shutter closes and opens when the holder is removed. The preview lever opens fully for focusing.

 

[reddesert]

Generally, "press" type shutters are self-cocking, sometimes labeled as "press" but not always. Also, the open-to-focus preview mechanism works differently on different brands and models of shutters - on some you have to cock the shutter to use it, on some you don't, and there are some shutters with no preview lever so that you have to use "B" and a locking cable release to preview. The "Copal Press Shutter" section at https://skgrimes.com/products/shutters/copal-shutters/ is probably relevant to your lens.

 

[abruzzi]

Kumar and Reddesert got you on the press shutter wierdness (they also don't go as fast--press shutter usually max as 1/125, whereas a normal Copal 1 usualy goes to 1/400, even if it doesn't actually get that fast.)

The other thing to note is that may mean that your lens elements were moved from a normal copal to a press copal so the aperture markings may not be fully accurate, since they my have been for a different focal length lens.

As far as lens caps, since I've purchased a bunch of LF lenses without caps, I've had to buy a bunch of replacement caps. Most LF lenses originally came with push on caps, and on many, the rear element isn't threaded, so cant take kond of clip on caps use on 35mm lenses. B&H sells a lot of different sized of push on caps for about $10 each. Just start at your local harbor freight and buy the cheapest digital calipers you can find (usualy about $10 as well.) measure the outside of the lens and get the closest cap you can find. You may also find vendor pdfs that may tell you what you need, but lately I've been buying old lenses where there isn't much good info, so the calipers are my fallback.

 

[grat]

Kaiser makes slip-on lens caps, and "Breakthrough Photography" makes center-pinch lens caps in varying sizes. Both available through Amazon (and others).

The size should be documented on the data sheet for the lens, but I'm not sure where to find the Nikkor specs. largeformatphotography.info has a lot of information on various lenses linked from the front page.

 

[cayenne]

Kumar and Reddesert got you on the press shutter wierdness (they also don't go as fast--press shutter usually max as 1/125, whereas a normal Copal 1 usualy goes to 1/400, even if it doesn't actually get that fast.)

The other thing to note is that may mean that your lens elements were moved from a normal copal to a press copal so the aperture markings may not be fully accurate, since they my have been for a different focal length lens.

As far as lens caps, since I've purchased a bunch of LF lenses without caps, I've had to buy a bunch of replacement caps. Most LF lenses originally came with push on caps, and on many, the rear element isn't threaded, so cant take kond of clip on caps use on 35mm lenses. B&H sells a lot of different sized of push on caps for about $10 each. Just start at your local harbor freight and buy the cheapest digital calipers you can find (usualy about $10 as well.) measure the outside of the lens and get the closest cap you can find. You may also find vendor pdfs that may tell you what you need, but lately I've been buying old lenses where there isn't much good info, so the calipers are my fallback.

Thank you!!

I just checked and indeed my shutter goes only up to 1/125!!

The part you mentioned about the lens previously possibly being moved from a normal copal to the press copal....does that mean there were Nikkor-w 210 lenses for one shutter type or the other? Is there a marking, model number or other indicator to differentiate as to which type of lens it is and what type shutter it requires for accurate aperture markings?

I'll check on the lens cap sizes like you recommended.

Thank you,
C

 

[cayenne]

You have a Copal press shutter made for Wista. This was an option for buyers in Japan. The shutter has an interlock cable socket. When a holder is inserted, the shutter closes and opens when the holder is removed. The preview lever opens fully for focusing.

Thank you for the reply...with regard to the inserting of a "holder"...this is a separate part that came with lenses to hold it open? If so, I'll try to figure some search terms for this part on it's own. Very interesting.

I did notice, after reading this...that my lens has two holes/sockets....do both serve the same purpose or is one for shutter release and the other for the holder object you mentioned?

Again, thank you for the reply!

cayenne

 

[cayenne]

Kaiser makes slip-on lens caps, and "Breakthrough Photography" makes center-pinch lens caps in varying sizes. Both available through Amazon (and others).

The size should be documented on the data sheet for the lens, but I'm not sure where to find the Nikkor specs. largeformatphotography.info has a lot of information on various lenses linked from the front page.

Thank you for the reply and the leads on specs and caps!!

C

 

[gone]

You can calculate filter and adapter size by placing a ruler across the glass and seeing what I have. It's plenty accurate enough, and nearly all rulers are in inches and MM. The metal ones are the best. Easier to read and handy for all sorts of things, although since misplacing mine the Dollar Tree plastic rulers work just as well.

You're in N.O.? I used to live on Bourbon and Esplanade, sorta across from the Port of Call, on the same block as one of those Stop & Robs. Really miss the food and music. Hopefully you got through the last storm OK. I was all set to go to this year's Jazz Fest, and then.........

 

[cayenne]

Generally, "press" type shutters are self-cocking, sometimes labeled as "press" but not always. Also, the open-to-focus preview mechanism works differently on different brands and models of shutters - on some you have to cock the shutter to use it, on some you don't, and there are some shutters with no preview lever so that you have to use "B" and a locking cable release to preview. The "Copal Press Shutter" section at https://skgrimes.com/products/shutters/copal-shutters/ is probably relevant to your lens.

Wow...that link was it!! Yep, I have a Copal press. I'll start off using this, but I am a little disappointed with the max speed only being 125 rather than 400.

I've never bought a copal shutter by itself before. Aside from eBay, do ya'll know of any trusted sources at reasonable prices to get a stand alone shutter purchase?

Any idea what a reasonable price for a good condition regular Copal 1 shutter would be?

Thank you EVERYONE for all the great replies!!

cayenne

 

[reddesert]

The shutter could easily be original to the lens. It might have been bought to use with a Wista outfit. Kumar would know better than me. What he is referring to with the holder is the film holder. A few large format cameras had systems of interlocks between the film holder insertion and other parts of the system, such as opening/closing the shutter. Once the outfit is broken up and the camera and lens become separated those interlocks are not as useful. You should figure out which cable release socket is used for the interlock and which operates the shutter normally.

Remounting a lens in a different shutter is in principle easy (just screw the elements in and out) and in practice requires care (need to insure that the element spacing and aperture scale are correct). Don't mess with it. Just use the lens as is at first. You'll probably find that the speeds above 1/125 are rarely used anyway.

 

[Dan McGuire]

Hello
I have a Nikkor brochure in pdf format
It has all the specs
It is to big to upload here
So
If you private message me with your email address I can send it off to you

Dan

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

This is one of my favourite LF lenses, as it'll cover 8x10. First time I've heard of it mounted in a self cocking shutter.

 

[cayenne]

This is one of my favourite LF lenses, as it'll cover 8x10. First time I've heard of it mounted in a self cocking shutter.

Right now, I"m using it in the only view camera I have, the Shen Hao dedicated 6x17 medium format shooter.
BUT, I'm planning the near future to jump into true large format 4x5 too...so, two birds with one stone so to speak.

I got the lens for just a touch over $200, it didn't have a lens board with it, but I ordered one from Amazon for like $26...it's on its way and I also have a shutter cable coming for it, I like to keep one to each lens.

I'm really looking forward to this lens...I"ve been shooting panos with the Shen Hao, and I've been running into shots that I need this extra reach for. I have the Nikkor 90mm and 150mm. This will help add to what I shoot and the lens elements look to be in mint condition.

I guess I'll likely round things out maybe with a Nikkor 300mm, but my wallet is a bit dry after this and my expenses evacuation hurricane Ida.

Thank you ALL for the great help and feedback!!!

cayenne

 

[cayenne]

<snip>

You're in N.O.? I used to live on Bourbon and Esplanade, sorta across from the Port of Call, on the same block as one of those Stop & Robs. Really miss the food and music. Hopefully you got through the last storm OK. I was all set to go to this year's Jazz Fest, and then.........

Ah....now I recognize the alias...Momus!!!
You do have a bit of carnival in you, eh?

Nice to meet you!! Yes, I know the area you lived very well!! And Port of Call, while it went downhill for a few years, has new owners and is supposed to be back to its former glory burger days!! I always preferred their Monsoon drink over the classic Hurricane, it actually has real fruit juice in it!!

I actually was quite blessed that Ida spared my roof and possessions. I got home a week ago....and I emptied my fridge, and then my big chest freezer. I'm lucky in that it appears I lost power late and got it back early.
The freezer wasn't too bad looking and no smell, but I tossed it all to be careful, but OH...hard to toss out 3 pans of lasagna, 2 prime grade standing rib roasts, about 8-10 Boston butt pork roasts (I like to smoke me some BBQ), 2 full hams and a bunch of other stuff.

I too was disappointed they cancelled Jazzfest again this year. I had my Stones tickets, and I was also set to be a staff photographer for Jazzfest again this year. I've done it for 4 years previously, I usually work the Blues Tent and the Gospel Tent. It's fun getting in free, and having the best seat in the house, often on stage with the bands. (I learned early on to make friends with the stage managers and they usually let me up on stage with the acts).

I will be doing it when JF comes about again this April/May.

Holler at me if you get to come to JF this year (I gotta think we'll have it THIS time).

Thanks for the reply and nice to meet a fellow WhoDat!! You know once you live down here, you never truly leave.


cayenne

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Right now, I"m using it in the only view camera I have, the Shen Hao dedicated 6x17 medium format shooter.
BUT, I'm planning the near future to jump into true large format 4x5 too...so, two birds with one stone so to speak.

I got the lens for just a touch over $200, it didn't have a lens board with it, but I ordered one from Amazon for like $26...it's on its way and I also have a shutter cable coming for it, I like to keep one to each lens.

I'm really looking forward to this lens...I"ve been shooting panos with the Shen Hao, and I've been running into shots that I need this extra reach for. I have the Nikkor 90mm and 150mm. This will help add to what I shoot and the lens elements look to be in mint condition.

I guess I'll likely round things out maybe with a Nikkor 300mm, but my wallet is a bit dry after this and my expenses evacuation hurricane Ida.

Thank you ALL for the great help and feedback!!!

cayenne

You'll love it. It continues to serve me well. I've had mine since the early 90's.

 

[abruzzi]

The part you mentioned about the lens previously possibly being moved from a normal copal to the press copal....does that mean there were Nikkor-w 210 lenses for one shutter type or the other? Is there a marking, model number or other indicator to differentiate as to which type of lens it is and what type shutter it requires for accurate aperture markings?

I only meant that its possible. I've seen Nikkor lenses in copal press shutters, but it usually looked like a element transplant. A copal 1, compur 1, and copal 1 press should all have the same lens element mounts, so its possible to move elements from a broken shutter to a different shutter. If the aperture scale was for a different focal length lens, is possible the scale will not be accurate for lens you have. It may not be far enough off to make much difference though.