Night Vision Goggles

JWMster · Dec 7, 2019

I've read somewhere here a fellow who has used night vision goggles to load film into holders (LF), on to reels, etc. I've fumbled a lot in the dark and often been amazed how long this takes. So I'm wondering about NVG's - especially at the low end as the poster used (toys actually), and whether it works, presents a long-term aid, or simply a boost up the ladder until you really get the hang of these things after which ...you literally CAN do them in your sleep.

I'm looking at ther $200 and under range. OP listed a price (used) around $50 off the Bay, so I'm aware this doesn't have to be the c-r-a-z-y price luxury of the $2,000 and up.Thoughts?

waileong · Dec 7, 2019

How could it work?

Night vision goggles work by amplifying light. If there's no light when you're loading film, you can't see anything.

If your night vision goggles actually put out infra red or UV light, there's a risk of fogging the film.

JWMster said:
I've read somewhere here a fellow who has used night vision goggles to load film into holders (LF), on to reels, etc. I've fumbled a lot in the dark and often been amazed how long this takes. So I'm wondering about NVG's - especially at the low end as the poster used (toys actually), and whether it works, presents a long-term aid, or simply a boost up the ladder until you really get the hang of these things after which ...you literally CAN do them in your sleep.

I'm looking at ther $200 and under range. OP listed a price (used) around $50 off the Bay, so I'm aware this doesn't have to be the c-r-a-z-y price luxury of the $2,000 and up.Thoughts?

JWMster · Dec 7, 2019

He said it was infa-red. and it worked without fogging. Would be nice if something worked when inevitably one drops a reel somewhere while trying to load a Jobo reel and reaching around in tight quarters to try and find it, or if it's really bad, trying to feel why the film isn't going on the reel. "Nice" doesn't mean realistic.... just a wish.

voceumana · Dec 7, 2019

One company I worked for made safety light curtains--devices to stop machines if someone moves into harm's way. We had a special modification for Kodak to use 880 nm LED's, as our standard LEDs could fog some films. So it is possible to use an IR source that doesn't fog standard films, though IR films might be susceptible.

The googles could be nice, too, for working with color materials.

mshchem · Dec 7, 2019

I use mine everyday. These are toy goggles, buy them on Ebay around 40 to 50

mshchem · Dec 7, 2019

There are several on Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jakks-Paci...n-Goggles-binocular-tested-work-/143374878547

mshchem · Dec 7, 2019

These things have a focusing wheel, easy to focus to work up close. I always use sitting down. No depth perception. It's a miracle for my 63 year old fingers. There are 2 sets of leds, I taped over the high power setting as these are near ir and glow dim red. I have a ir flood light that illuminates the big room but I never use it. I use a bungee to strap these to my head. They are great help, all plastic toy, amazing.

Larry Cloetta · Dec 7, 2019

mshchem said:
These things have a focusing wheel, easy to focus to work up close. I always use sitting down. No depth perception. It's a miracle for my 63 year old fingers. There are 2 sets of leds, I taped over the high power setting as these are near ir and glow dim red. I have a ir flood light that illuminates the big room but I never use it. I use a bungee to strap these to my head. They are great help, all plastic toy, amazing.

Thanks for this, I had no idea. Learn something new everyday. Wish I had known about this when just starting out, spending 30 minutes trying to load a 120 reel, and screaming at the wall.

Bill Burk · Dec 7, 2019

I did a test with TMAX-400 where I aimed the infrared emitter directly at the film at 15 inches, for an hour. The fog was 0.40.

This is what the test negative looks like.
http://beefalobill.com/images/testneg1.jpg

This is the graph.
http://beefalobill.com/images/testgraph1.jpg

The analysis led me to say 15 minutes would be reasonably safe. It would only lead to an 0.20 fog. But if I put 0.60 density over the light source, still would have enough infrared light that the viewer would work... but the overall fog in 15 minutes would be about 0.04 over base+fog in 15 minutes.

When we're talking about 0.04 density of fog in 15 minutes, it's fair to say the effect is negligible.

mshchem · Dec 7, 2019

Bill Burk said:
I did a test with TMAX-400 where I aimed the infrared emitter directly at the film at 15 inches, for an hour. The fog was 0.40.

This is what the test negative looks like.
http://beefalobill.com/images/testneg1.jpg

This is the graph.
http://beefalobill.com/images/testgraph1.jpg

The analysis led me to say 15 minutes would be reasonably safe. It would only lead to an 0.20 fog. But if I put 0.60 density over the light source, still would have enough infrared light that the viewer would work... but the overall fog in 15 minutes would be about 0.04 over base+fog in 15 minutes.

When we're talking about 0.04 density of fog in 15 minutes, it's fair to say the effect is negligible.

Was this the IR source from these marvelous toy goggles? I haven't noticed fog, it is only taking me a minute or two to load a 120 reel, this includes my corner snipping, which is comical without depth perception. I'm sure there's got to be something, but it's like Thomas safelights it's all about wavelength, time and distance.

mshchem · Dec 7, 2019

I just read your graph, 1 hour at 15 inches, ATN Viper , excellent report!

Alan9940 · Dec 7, 2019

I use a Nightfox 119V for handling of films from 35mm - 8x10, film speeds from 25 - 400, and I've never seen any fogging issues.

tezzasmall · Dec 8, 2019

mshchem said:
I use mine everyday. These are toy goggles, buy them on Ebay around 40 to 50

I'm quite amazed how bright everything seems to be when using these goggles.

And I've NEVER heard or seen anyone load their 35mm film into the spiral that way either!

Terry S

mshchem · Dec 8, 2019

I am using the built-in IR LED array , it could be partially covered. Loading sheet film is blinding, the emulsion side is extremely bright. I don't know if that is something to do with antihalation dyes or the emulsion.

NortheastPhotographic · Jan 17, 2020

Quickly, would those IR goggles fog RA4 paper? Could be useful for me when using a slot processor during paper development.

mshchem · Jan 17, 2020

NortheastPhotographic said:
Quickly, would those IR goggles fog RA4 paper? Could be useful for me when using a slot processor during paper development.

Not one bit.
Thomas safelights work as well, with the DUC filter, I have 4 of them in my darkroom (large space ) once you wait 10 minutes for your eyes to adjust. No goggles.

But short answer is no, I bungee cord my goggles to my head. Don't try to walk with them on! The Spynet version has two sets of illumination, one is near IR, you can see dim red light ,I have these taped over

JoJo · Jan 18, 2020

I use selfmade IR-goggles since many years and I don't want to miss them.
I add a camera in the center of TV-videoglasses. The camera must be B/W.
Illumination of the darkroom is done by 940nm LED floodlight. The camera itself has some IR-LEDs to enhance near field brightness.
8 years ago, when I built the thing, the video glasses were very expensive. But now you can get them below $100.
The only thing is to be sure that they have a composite video input.
Cables limit range of movement a bit. I wanted to make a battery pack but never did.
With these goggles I can handle all kind of materials, even processing E-6 in tray.

Joachim

JWMster · Jan 18, 2020

mshchem: So you use these for loading film into your development tanks? That could be helpful... especially with 4X5 and getting in on reels... since that'd be "new to me". I'm pondering a set to help load 4X5 film holders.... 'cause I am probably unnecessarily intimidate at the moment.

Bill Burk · Jan 18, 2020

They help a lot loading 4x5 film holders. Because with less fumbling you are less likely to scratch and get dust/fingerprints on the film.

JWMster · Jan 18, 2020

I see these things have 2 side lights and a center view barrel. Do I assume you cover the side lights? or if they're infrared, do we not worry about them?

NortheastPhotographic · Jan 18, 2020

I ordered the IR goggles. $37 how could I not? It's basically Zero Dork 30 over here!

mshchem · Jan 18, 2020

JWMster said:
mshchem: So you use these for loading film into your development tanks? That could be helpful... especially with 4X5 and getting in on reels... since that'd be "new to me". I'm pondering a set to help load 4X5 film holders.... 'cause I am probably unnecessarily intimidate at the moment.

Yes, I use to load 4x5 reels, I use for loading roll film onto Jobo reels, film holders. I have used with black and white, color negative, color reversal, no problem. I use when loading film holders. I have lost some feeling in my fingers, I've never had problems until about 7 or 8 years back. This takes any worries out of the film handling and it's fun.

mshchem · Jan 18, 2020

JWMster said:
I see these things have 2 side lights and a center view barrel. Do I assume you cover the side lights? or if they're infrared, do we not worry about them?

Yes, two sets of LEDS one set is pure IR, the other is for illuminating farther objects. This set has a slight visible red light. There's a switch to select between the two light sources. I have taped over the near IR source with tape to prevent an accidental exposure. The IR LED array has no effect, I've had sheet film at 20-24 inches for several minutes without any effect at all.

Fujicaman1957 · Jan 18, 2020

Standard B & W film and color film can't "see' IR! I worked in a color lab years ago-we had IR lights in the room with the "Cine" processors for the times the machines jammed and IR googles for the machine operators for this problem.

Night Vision Goggles

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