News today from Kodak

wblynch · May 3, 2013

Been there done that. Take the thirty cents.

I had a $20 stock go bk. sold it at fifty cents. Then I bought a Ton at twenty-six cents and sold it for fifty cents again. Two days later it was zero.

Don't remember if it was Worldcom or UAL. We can still talk on the phone and we can still fly in planes.

And God willing we will still buy film.

Sal Santamaura · May 3, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
Ahhh, Fred, my stock was bought high so here I am at about 30 cents / share...

Too bad you hadn't adopted my philosophy. I'd never buy any stock in a company that would hire me.

Uncle Bill · May 3, 2013

I know I'm late to the thread, this is great news. Properly run, the new buyers of Kodak's film and document business will have a decent income generator.

removed account4 · May 3, 2013

Ken Nadvornick said:
Harman's execs sure did...

Ken

!!!!!!!!

Rafal Lukawiecki · May 3, 2013

I really liked it when Steven Ross, the Chairman of the United Kingdom Kodak Pension Plan, said in that quoted Dead Link Removed, that he was thinking in 20-year cycles. I hope this means focus on a long-term sustainable business, quality product, and, in my dreams, maybe even some cool, Kodak-clever innovation.

PKM-25 · May 3, 2013

Rafal Lukawiecki said:
I really liked it when Steven Ross, the Chairman of the United Kingdom Kodak Pension Plan, said in that quoted Dead Link Removed, that he was thinking in 20-year cycles. I hope this means focus on a long-term sustainable business, quality product, and, in my dreams, maybe even some cool, Kodak-clever innovation.

I think that what happens in the next 18-24 months will steer this course a lot. If both users of Kodak film and sellers Kodak film think out of the box, there is no telling where this can lead so I hope we can really work together on making sure enough people use the products.

I bet marketing has been doing a lot of homework as they wait for the day they actually have a budget to execute some new ideas....I am excited to see what they come up with!

Paul Howell · May 3, 2013

lxdude said:
For a little perspective: I'm looking at a B&H ad from November 1982.
Tri-X:
135-36, $2.19.
120, $1.75

From the US Consumer Price Index's inflation calculator:

$2.19 in 1982= $5.28 in 2013

$1.75 in 1982= $4.22 in 2013

Wards Photographic Catalog 1952

35mm 36 ex Plus X $3.86 is now $32.54 a roll.

Photo Engineer · May 3, 2013

No one bought the Kodak film business. The British retirement plan bought the paper business. They have the right to use the Kodak name and trademark.

Kodak operates its film coating business as usual and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Distribution of the film has been sold to a marketing company. So, Kodak film made at Kodak park > Marketing company > us.

Kodak paper ? large finishers in rolls.

PE

lxdude · May 3, 2013

PDH said:
Wards Photographic Catalog 1952

35mm 36 ex Plus X $3.86 is now $32.54 a roll.

Wow.

In the 1982 B&H ad Plus-X was the same price as Tri-X. $2.19.

pbromaghin · May 4, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
No one bought the Kodak film business. The British retirement plan bought the paper business. They have the right to use the Kodak name and trademark.

Kodak operates its film coating business as usual and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Distribution of the film has been sold to a marketing company. So, Kodak film made at Kodak park > Marketing company > us.

Kodak paper ? large finishers in rolls.

PE

Ron, are you sure about this? The public release sure reads like the UKPP bought the entire film business, including ownership of the emulsions, while old-Kodak retained ownership of the only place where the films cold be made.

shutterlight · May 4, 2013

Sorry to come into this discussion a bit late (comparatively speaking).

During the past school year, which is just now ending, I came to depend on shooting Portra 400 with my Mamiya 7 to do most of my serious work. I shoot a certain way with my 7 that I don't with any other camera. I make images with it that I don't make with my digital cameras or even just film SLRs. How likely is it that Kodak C41 film is going to go away by the end of this year? I don't really care about B/W film from Kodak, because Ilford is committed to making B/W film and its future is secure for the time being. Color film, however, is super important to me.

To lose Portra would require me to change what and how I shoot, and I hope that doesn't happen.

AgX · May 4, 2013

pbromaghin said:
Ron, are you sure about this? The public release sure reads like the UKPP bought the entire film business, including ownership of the emulsions, while old-Kodak retained ownership of the only place where the films cold be made.

The statements from Kodak PR:

cdkrenzer said:
Hi Sal - You are correct. All film (still and motion picture) manufacturing will remain with Kodak in Rochester. I don't have any information on the 2nd part of the question - all I can say is what we've said previously (as that has not changed). The lifecycle of film will depend on consumer and professional demand for the products.

cdkrenzer said:
All of our paper manufacturing capability, IP and team around the world will move to the new company. Our consumer and professional film will continue to be made in Kodak’s film factories via a long-term supply agreement.

Ian Grant · May 4, 2013

AgX said:
The statements from Kodak PR:

So it's not good news after all, Perez will sill be milking the film division to pay his salary and bonuses.

Ian

fotch · May 4, 2013

Ian Grant said:
So it's not good news after all, Perez will sill be milking the film division to pay his salary and bonuses.

Ian

This is sure negative news.

Roger Cole · May 4, 2013

I see nothing in that to contradict the film business being sold. It still looks like Kodak Rochester will continue making the film while marketing and distribution will be done by the UK owners, but Ron may have other inside information.

Photo Engineer · May 4, 2013

As I said earlier, Kodak will continue to make emulsions and coat all current film products in B38 at Kodak Park. Nothing has changed in that regard, and it is stated as such by the EK rep above.

Color paper mfg. goes to the UK people.

PE

Truzi · May 4, 2013

It always seemed clear to me that Kodak was not trying to sell the manufacturing. Press releases and news items I read back in September 2012 (when I started following it) made that point repeatedly - stating Kodak was going to sell the part that sells/markets the film (among other things), but keep the actual manufacture. The release linked to at the opening of this thread even states that, and says Kodak is trying to move towards a business-to-business model (B2B).

Aside from the comments on mismanagement, I also think Kodak has/had it's finger in too many pots and wasn't able to give any of them the attention they needed (I know, this is considered mismanagement as well, but not in the usual "bean-counting" sense). The divisions likely were not independent enough to adapt to the market quickly.

Hopefully this sale to a more-or-less dedicated group will give it the attention it needs.

lxdude · May 4, 2013

Ian Grant said:
So it's not good news after all, Perez will sill be milking the film division to pay his salary and bonuses.

Ian

It also means that Kodak retains all liabilities regarding the Kodak site and all outstanding obligations regarding Kodak film employees. I think removing that encumbrance from the retail film business helps it be viewed as viable.

Roger Cole · May 4, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
As I said earlier, Kodak will continue to make emulsions and coat all current film products in B38 at Kodak Park. Nothing has changed in that regard, and it is stated as such by the EK rep above.

Color paper mfg. goes to the UK people.

PE

Manufacturing, yes, we know that. But will not sales and marketing of film move to the new UK owners? That alone could really help turn things around (or not).

Photo Engineer · May 4, 2013

At present, the sales and distribution of the products is not clear. It has been sold, but what part goes to what organization is not clear except for the fact that the color paper distribution goes to the UK group.

PE

PKM-25 · May 4, 2013

shutterlight said:
How likely is it that Kodak C41 film is going to go away by the end of this year? I don't really care about B/W film from Kodak, because Ilford is committed to making B/W film and its future is secure for the time being.

I don't shoot much color anymore, shoot black and white at a ratio of 20/1 but I want Kodak color to stick around in order for those who really want to use it to be able to....see the pattern there? It's not really cool to say you don't care about a film that some of us depend on to earn a living, next time just leave that opinion out, ok?

Portra should be fine for several years as like other Kodak still films, it is riding on the coat tails of the making of motion picture stock which Kodak is under contract to produce through 2015. If that is not good enough for you, I suggest you be responsible to your needs and stock up like many of us do.

As for the new speculation on this thread, I bet it is time for Colleen to weigh in again as thoughts seem to have drifted instead of being patient to wait for the next *Official* statement from Kodak in regards to this latest development.

Pioneer · May 4, 2013

I shoot black and white, but I still shoot a bunch of color, Kodak color. I sincerely hope it does not go away anytime soon.

MattKing · May 4, 2013

I wonder what is going to happen with the products that they have already licensed - such as their photo chemicals.

Sal Santamaura · May 4, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
At present, the sales and distribution of the products is not clear. It has been sold, but what part goes to what organization is not clear except for the fact that the color paper distribution goes to the UK group...

Seems pretty clear to me.

cdkrenzer said:
All of our paper manufacturing capability, IP and team around the world will move to the new company. Our consumer and professional film will continue to be made in Kodaks film factories via a long-term supply agreement.

cdkrenzer said:
To clarify, Kodak will MANUFACTURE both motion picture and still film in Rochester. The BUSINESS of still film is part of Personalized Imaging and is part of the spin-off and will be supplied to KPP as part of a long-term supply agreement.

Still films will be made by Kodak, which will supply them to the new English KPP-owned sales/markeing entity (as yet not named), which in turn will distribute/market them. The only question not answered (which Colleen essentially indicated she knows but is unable to reveal) is for how long Kodak will supply those still films. Colleen has communicated that still film demand going forward will play a significant role in determining the supply duration.

The following is the only thing I've posted that isn't fact-based: Kodak's agreement with the KPP-owned marketing/distribution entity probably requires it to supply still films for a minimum number of years and, after that, includes a minimum annual volume for each product. If the new entity doesn't order at least the threshold quantity of a specific product after the calendar-based guarantee has expired, Kodak would be able to cease production of it. There may also be an aggregate minimum product quantity minimum after the guarantee date. This is the kind of arrangement one would expect both parties could live with.

Bob Carnie · May 4, 2013

Ron
Do you envision that the plant would ever consider black and white paper in rolls.??

Photo Engineer said:
As I said earlier, Kodak will continue to make emulsions and coat all current film products in B38 at Kodak Park. Nothing has changed in that regard, and it is stated as such by the EK rep above.

Color paper mfg. goes to the UK people.

PE

News today from Kodak

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