Newer generations finding interest in alternative processes

Dinah DiNova is a very young photographer. She's of a generation that barely remembers film. But she has a real interest in tintype photography. But she's pretty rare in her generation I feel.

http://blog.flickr.net/en/2014/04/11/photographer-combines-old-and-new-in-stunning-tintypes/

Yep, a rare sight to see young people going into alternative photography. This is partly because of stupid rules made up by people who know squat about chemicals makes it harder and harder to get the chemicals needed to do them. Other reason might be the limited knowledge about the old ways of photography. We have a Museum of photography in Belgium and even there very little info can be obtained about old processes. They have old process photographs and they are often called, "salt print of this", "Van Dyck Brown of that" but besides the names of the processes not much ohter info is provided about them. A real shame this is.

Here in the U.S., all the chemicals required for this gal to make tintype are easily available. But on the other hand, sometimes chemicals are too available where the some chemical are not used for what it's intended. Recent examples are the use of fertilizers to make bombs. I think I'm lucky that I can buy most photo chemicals in bulk here easily and cheaply.

The bigger restriction seems to be on chemicals that could alternately be used to make dope, which includes quite a list of things it's almost
unbelievable anyone would deliberately introduce into their personal physiology, including heavy metal salts. But how much damage can someone that stupid to begin with do to their brain anyway? ... But alt processes are pretty popular around here with the younger crowd,
more so it seems than silver photography. But as usual, most of it comes out either awfully artsy/craftsy or pseudo antique-ish.

Interesting photos!

Jeff

I think there is a difference between the US and Europe. Here in Europe it's becoming more and more difficult to get chemicals for alt process. Silverprint in London for example may not sell Dichromates anymore to private persons because of legal dumbo crap. Here in Belgium it's barely managable, there is 1 shop in my surroundings that sell raw chems without asking stupid questions. But I fear the day they quit with it because of insane Euro trash regulations. I know nobody in real life that does any Alt process, the closest people come is polaroid these days. It's like I'm living in the dark ages of photography here and it's all digi crap as far as you can see.

DREW WILEY said:

The bigger restriction seems to be on chemicals that could alternately be used to make dope, which includes quite a list of things it's almost
unbelievable anyone would deliberately introduce into their personal physiology, including heavy metal salts. But how much damage can someone that stupid to begin with do to their brain anyway? ... But alt processes are pretty popular around here with the younger crowd,
more so it seems than silver photography. But as usual, most of it comes out either awfully artsy/craftsy or pseudo antique-ish.

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yeah some people are dopes, that is for sure ...
i have heard of people going int electrical sub stations ( live )
to steal the copper .. not the brightest bulb on the tree ...

regarding arts/craftish antiquish images ...
sometimes you have to be a bit conservative
before you can have enough confidence to do your own thing ... ?

there are millions of mimics in every "genre".
if it makes them happy, thats what counts, no?

Uncle Goose said:

But I fear the day they quit with it because of insane Euro trash regulations ...

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what is insane about the trash regulations? what you are or are not allowed to dump down the drain or into the landfill? the us has regulations as well, maybe as strict as yours? and i hate to say this but a lot of people dont care about regulations, which is sad because some chemicals end up in the ground water and water supply or poison fish, birds, frogs &c because of it ... they believe it is their right do do whatever they want, or believe they generate such a small quantity of waste it doesnt matter ...oh well ...

thanks for the link MCM! you always post good stuff

jnanian said:

what is insane about the trash regulations? what you are or are not allowed to dump down the drain or into the landfill? the us has regulations as well, maybe as strict as yours? and i hate to say this but a lot of people dont care about regulations, which is sad because some chemicals end up in the ground water and water supply or poison fish, birds, frogs &c because of it ... they believe it is their right do do whatever they want, or believe they generate such a small quantity of waste it doesnt matter ...oh well ...

thanks for the link MCM! you always post good stuff

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I think you miss understood me, I was only saying that the Euro regulations are trash, not that I'm opposed against waste disposal regulations. In view of disposal we have a pretty good system where I live. I collect all waste chemicals (like developer and fixer) and were I live I can bring it to a place were they see it's processed without doing harm to nature. The last thing I want to do is harm the plants and animals. It's just that since a few years the whole Euro thing is spinning out of control, when the Euro jocks decide something all countries have to lick their balls and nod franticly like they were a kind of puppy dog. It's really disgusting and it's not only going about very mundane stuff, it's also very specific stuff they shouldn't get involved with in the first place. First they want to take our guns and now they want to take our chems, damn dictatorship if you ask me. What they accomplish has little effect on things like drugs (because specific key chemicals for making illegal drugs are already so regulated you cannot even buy them as a private person) or even the environment. What they do accomplish is that they push alternative processes deeper into obscurity. It has become so sad here in Belgium that it's actually more easy to get illegal and dangerous drugs than the rather harmless chemicals for cyanotype for instance. So, with all this going on it's not a big surprise that very few young people find their way into alt process.

thanks uncle goose
i had no idea what you were talking about
and no idea that it was like that in belgium.
i know of a handful of people in europe who are doing
alternative process sort of things and never heard
the back story about how it was hard to obtain the chemicals.
i know now ... thanks!
john

It's not that hard to obtain alt process chemicals in Europe, whatever our Belgian correspondent asserts.

Moersch in Germany and many others in Italy, France and Spain will ship all over Europe.

Rarer reagents and whatnot can often be found on eBay

In the UK it can be a little more difficult, such as Silverprint no longer selling dichromate to individuals, but generally the problem is the cost of shipping rather than unavailability.

It is impossible now to buy metaborate (of all things) in the UK, but even though Silverprint have stopped selling dichromate to individuals, one can still buy it by the bucketload from any number of online sellers

As for guns, Europe has never had a "gun culture" in the same way as the US, and the idea that the EU has "taken away our guns" is faintly bizarre ... but experience tells that bringing discussions about firearms into a photo thread is asking for it to degenerate fast and get locked. So better leave it there.

Sure, you can get stuff online at the moment (but often you break your bank in terms of shipping) but with more and more EU involvement it's only a matter of time until they enforce rules that prohibit shipping without special licenses and stuff. I rather want to buy my chems locally because of saving on shipping and don't have the risk of losing it on the way to me. Also, there is a certain degree of anonymity with buying locally. I rarely order chems online but when I do I always wonder when the bell rings if it will be the postman or the police. And before you call me paranoid, a few years back I regularly ordered items from Holland, one day I expected a package but instead of my package it was the local police asking me if I agree to voluntarily let them search my house for drugs (I refused of course). Turned out that some guy at the post office found it suspicious that I received that many boxes from Holland and he thought I was importing weed, so he called the cops on me. They never came back with an order, probably because they couldn't get any hard evidence for a court order. I'm just saying that in comparison with, say 20 years back, much has changed and not for the better.

And in terms of the guns, we indeed didn't have the same gun culture as in the US but till around the 1930's Europe actually had a gun culture in terms of many shooting clubs, just for the fun of it.This all changed over time and a few years back the EU jocks decided that no country in the EU should allow sale of a fire arm without license (for which you have to pay big €'s of course) because for a dictatorship nothing is more dangerous than an armed population, Hitler knew that and so did Stalin and we all know how that ended. Belgium was of course one of the first to lick the balls of the EU jocks. And man, how they licked, they licked them clean all the way. Nowadays shooting clubs are almost a thing of the past, they even have set a limit how many people can have a license in the whole of the country. It will come as no surprise that Belgium has just over 3.000.000 unlicensed weapons floating around on a population of little over 10.000.000 inhabitants. Yes, they try to take our guns away but in the end we don't let them.

Back to the blog - I saw that blog a few months ago now. Its great that she is embracing the art and I only wish to encourage her.

But (& there is always a but), I think that there are much better examples of Tin Types being shot today, with a mixture of the traditional process and modern subjects.. Giles Clement (illumiquest on here) and Craig Tuffin (also a member here) do absolutely stunning work and are such an inspiration.

Uncle Goose said:

Yep, a rare sight to see young people going into alternative photography. This is partly because of stupid rules made up by people who know squat about chemicals makes it harder and harder to get the chemicals needed to do them. Other reason might be the limited knowledge about the old ways of photography. We have a Museum of photography in Belgium and even there very little info can be obtained about old processes. They have old process photographs and they are often called, "salt print of this", "Van Dyck Brown of that" but besides the names of the processes not much ohter info is provided about them. A real shame this is.

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A rare sight? That depends on where you live. Where I come from, it's as rare as the beginning of each semester.

Good to see a member of the not so old set taking the step into the alt world. I am inclined to agree with Hoffy. Just because you got an image does not mean you got a good image on the plate. I hope the artist is thoughtful and reflective enough to realize she has a long way to go, and works to get there. There is potential.

unfortunately every few years the EU tightens regulations on chemistry; essentially anyone selling chemistry such as bichromate or colodium to private persons is in breach of the law What is more, there is a whole lot of laws governing waste and if there is paper trail, sooner or later you may need to account for what you did with the waste. So, if you have a chance to buy things with no questions asked, my advice is stock up for years. Preferably taking no invoice

hoffy said:

Back to the blog - I saw that blog a few months ago now. Its great that she is embracing the art and I only wish to encourage her.

But (& there is always a but), I think that there are much better examples of Tin Types being shot today, with a mixture of the traditional process and modern subjects.. Giles Clement (illumiquest on here) and Craig Tuffin (also a member here) do absolutely stunning work and are such an inspiration.

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+2 !