Newbie with a question

batmanusa · Aug 11, 2015

Hello, My name is Greg and I am not well versed in Medium Format at all. I will apologize upfront for my lack of knowledge when it comes to film cameras. I've been enjoying shooting 120 black and white film with a Yashica Mat 124G and have been developing it at home. I recently purchased a Mamiya RZ67 and shot a roll of film with it a couple days ago and all was fine when developed. Today, I shot another roll and noticed many missing images on the negative. The first 6 shots were captured, however the last 4 were totally missing. Things I am sure of are...
01. The lens cap was off.
02. The Dark Slide was removed and stored in the rear slot.
03. The film seemed to advance normally and the shutter seemed to fire normally.
04. When I advanced the film, I always try to put even pressure during the push and not jerky or real fast.
05. Upon shooting picture #10, I used the circular wind button and it seemed to be at the end of the roll without excessive winding.

It would not surprise me if I am doing something wrong here, but I am also wondering if the film back and/or camera could be causing this trouble. I appreciate any and all thoughts/opinions on what I am doing wrong. I included a photo to show what I am talking about. One more thing I noticed is the difference in distance between the first and second frame compared to the distance between the rest of the frames.

Thanks,

Greg

Sirius Glass · Aug 11, 2015

Welcome to APUG

Taking off the lens cap and removing and storing the dark slide are good things to do every time.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 12, 2015

Did you follow AA's advise to pre visualize the image?If not,well...

Bill Burk · Aug 12, 2015

Which end has the tape? The end that has good pictures? If so I don't know the problem. Your last shots were blank.

If the tape is on top where the blanks are, you may have wound the film too far when you started the roll, and then wound right off the end to finish.

batmanusa · Aug 12, 2015

RalphLambrecht: That was pretty darn funny. That could be part of the problem.

Bill Burk: I am fairly confident that the film loaded correctly to the first frame and appeared as normal without excessive winding. The first 6 photos were captured in the order they were shot and under the correct frame numbers on the film. It appears that the last 4 shots towards the end of the roll are the ones that are missing. The viewfinder appeared normal, the shutter appeared to function normally and afterwards advance as normal. I am at a loss as to why this happened. It wouldn't surprise me if it was an error on my end somewhere....but I am stumped.

Thank you both (Even you, RalphLambrecht...Lol) for responding.

Greg

Bill Burk · Aug 12, 2015

batmanusa,

Sorry I couldn't help. I liked Ralph's answer too. The solution would be to buy his book "Way Beyond Monochrome", it will reassure you that you bought the right camera (Ralph loves medium format).

Welcome to APUG, maybe someone who knows the RZ67 will chime in...

summicron1 · Aug 12, 2015

Basics: One presumes yu checked and the shutter is opening when you fire it? All the time?

MattKing · Aug 12, 2015

Remember that the shutter is in the lens.

batmanusa · Aug 12, 2015

Thank you, gentlemen. I did NOT verify that the shutter was opening and closing properly. I was standing in the grass alongside a busy road with my camera on a tripod and cable release about 3 feet from moving traffic trying to shoot a friend's old barn from a good perspective. I failed to pay attention. Since that is most likely the reason for the missing images, should I return the lens and swap it out for another one as I am going to assume there is no simple fix. It is still return/exchangeable but I am unsure if they have another lens in stock like I this one. It's a 65mm for the RZ and I'm sure there are probably a zillion of them in existence, but don't know how many come thru our local camera shop.

I sincerely appreciate all the help I have received from this forum. There are some great people here. Many thanks,

Greg

goros · Aug 12, 2015

A couple of questions:

Were the first six pictures taken with the cable release?
For the last four ones, that were taken with the cable release, did you use only one cable release attached to the lens socket or to the shutter release button?

If the cable release is attached to the lens socket, the shutter button has to be pressed to lift the mirror. If you just release the lens shutter, the mirror is still down and no picture is taken.

Xmas · Aug 12, 2015

Dry fire the lens 100 times at 1/15 you should see the blades opening.
They can be sticky if they have been in storage for a year or so.
The shop should be able to get their repair person to address.
Hand over negative in filing strip.

bvy · Aug 12, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
The shutter failed. Intermittent. No other possible explanation.

I'm in the habit now of test firing the shutter before loading film in any camera.

MattKing · Aug 12, 2015

goros said:
A couple of questions:

Were the first six pictures taken with the cable release?
For the last four ones, that were taken with the cable release, did you use only one cable release attached to the lens socket or to the shutter release button?

If the cable release is attached to the lens socket, the shutter button has to be pressed to lift the mirror. If you just release the lens shutter, the mirror is still down and no picture is taken.

Never exclude the possibility of operator error!

I think that gorbas may very well have gotten it right. You should carefully read the instructions concerning mirror up function, and then try again.

Please report back - want to know.

nwilkins · Aug 12, 2015

I have one theory based on my knowledge of the RB67 lenses. Did you use the mirror lock up function on any of the first 6 shots? If so, and you inadvertently removed the cable release improperly (ie unscrewed it without turning the mirror lock up function off) then all the following photographs would have come out blank.

Nathan King · Aug 12, 2015

Also, a few of my lenses allow a cable release to be unscrewed without the socket retracting back into the lens. If this happens the shutter will not fire. Depending on how far out the socket sticks the film may be allowed to advance without the shutter firing.

RobC · Aug 12, 2015

I'd also guess it a cable release firing problem.

You should be able to test it functions with cable release at home with or without film in camera.

batmanusa · Aug 12, 2015

Sorry for the delayed response, fellas...I left town early this morning to golf with my Father in my hometown. Just got back. I appreciate all the feedback and I'll try to answer as best I can.

goros: Yes, all 10 of the photos were taken with the cable release attached to the shutter release button. At no time did I have the cable release attached to the lens. I'm positive of this.

Xmas: I will try that, thank you!

bvy: I will take that advice to heart from now on. Thanks!

MattKing: Lol...I think I've got the part about never excluding operator error down pat. Hence my statements of "It would not surprise me if I am doing something wrong here" and "It wouldn't surprise me if it was an error on my end somewhere". Being a novice at anything, I first suspect an error on my part as opposed to equipment failure. I am also certain that I did not at any time use Mirror Lock Up during yesterday's shoot.

nwilkins: Nope, didn't use Mirror Lock Up on any of the 10 shots. Also, I attached the cable release to the shutter release button on the camera prior to the first picture and kept it attached during all 10 shots without it separating from the camera.

Nathan King: That is interesting and something to keep in mind! In this case, the cable release was attached to the shutter release on the camera body and stayed put until I finished shooting the last picture (#10) and unscrewed it from shutter release.

Those are all great suggestions and ideas. I am going to try and shoot another roll tomorrow and develop it and see if it repeats itself. I will also jot down what is shot, what aperture and speed, etc. At this point, I am kind of hoping it WILL repeat itself as I would like to discover the problem for sure as opposed to it being intermittent and showing up the return window has closed. We have a fantastic camera shop here in my city and I am very familiar with all the crew and they stand behind their new and used equipment. They have a 180 return on used merchandise that is sold in "Good" or better condition.

batmanusa · Aug 12, 2015

Robc: Now THAT is an interesting possibility! Never thought of that. I will pay more attention tomorrow when I shoot.

trondsi · Aug 12, 2015

Try one more film roll before you dismiss the camera as broken. For instance, I clumsily managed to fire the shutter while loading film once with my old Rolleiflex, and weird things happened with that film.

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