Newbie questions about darkroom

seanE · Jan 16, 2016

Im using two 60w red painted light bulbs I got in a hard ware. How can I tell if there safe to use? I can drop one of them if wattage is a problem,
I don't have a changing bag, But I'm going to take a wide angle shot of the four corners of the room, With my DSLR at 6400 for 30sec exposure, If it shows up black I'm good right?

Sirius Glass · Jan 16, 2016

First of all the two 60 watt light bulbs are red lights, not safe lights. They will fog the paper and any film. You need some sort of safe light for paper. Safe lights are for paper only.

Safe lights for film are very dim and dark dark green. I have never used safe lights for film so ask someone else.

For film you need a changing bag. They are not expensive. I recommend that you get a large bag so that you have room to move around with a camera or development tank in the bag. A room is dark enough if the paper does not fog, but a room has to be completely dark for film.

You will need to black out windows and around doors with darkroom cloth. I have cover the window in one room with a large cardboard sheet behind the venation blind and then a blackout curtain covering the complete window plus several inches. The door has a cover on the outside. Yet that is dark enough for paper, but not dark enough for film. For film I use a darkroom bag.

Huub · Jan 16, 2016

For almost all film you will need a darkroom that is pitch dark with no lights at all. The exeption being ortho chromatic film, which can be used under red light. If you can switch of the red lights seperately in your darkroom making the room completely dark, you are safe to go when it comes to film.

The test if your lights are save for the paper you are using, is pretty straight forward. Expose a small sheet of paper until it gets light grey when developed. Put a piece of exposed and undeveloped paper next to your enlarger and put a few coins on it. Wait for around 5 minutes with the red lights on and develop the sheet as normal. When the sheet comes out even grey, you are safe. If you can see where coins have been laying on the paper, you have to use different bulbs.

Wayne · Jan 16, 2016

Just turn the lights off in the room and sit there for several minutes. If you see light leaks, seal them. If you don't see anything after a few minutes you're fine for film changing. I've never owned a changing bag in my life. I can start to see some light if I sit there for a long time but this is not going to fog your film. But it behooves you to make it as light-tight as possible

60 watts is too much, you should be looking in the 10-15 watt range. Red bulbs might give off other wavelengths that could fog paper. You can hold a CD up a red light and see if you see other colors, but this is not fail proof. 60 watts is till too much. Do a search on "safelight test" for ways to test any safelight. (you can't use any safelight with film of course unless you're using ortho or x-ray film).

Wayne · Jan 16, 2016

Huub got there while I was typing...

Rick A · Jan 16, 2016

seanE said:
Im using two 60w red painted light bulbs I got in a hard ware. How can I tell if there safe to use? I can drop one of them if wattage is a problem,
I don't have a changing bag, But I'm going to take a wide angle shot of the four corners of the room, With my DSLR at 6400 for 30sec exposure, If it shows up black I'm good right?

Throw those in the trash. Now go to ebay and find a proper safe light with either a dark red (preferred) or one with an OC (not OA) filter. Set it up so it's at least four feet from your work area. Once it's set up, do a proper safe light test. NEVER use the light for film, that requires total black out conditions.

winger · Jan 16, 2016

For only $40, these are great - http://www.freestylephoto.biz/12185-Premier-Safelight-5x7-Red

Complete dark for film, safelights for paper and orthochromatic film.

seanE · Jan 16, 2016

I just can't wait to get started, Every time I order anything it takes a week to get to me,
The thread below is what had me thinking I could use a red light, ''I'm using fomabrom 111'' which is an orthochromatic paper, so could i use my red light with it if i put them thru an other filter to reduce the wattage?

What I'm wondering is, Are all you mad, Or are they all mad. :munch:

http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-printing-finishing-forum/008z0p

Roger Cole · Jan 16, 2016

Some painted lightbulbs will be safe, but not 60W ones. That's WAY too bright. Such bulbs are usually in the 5W - 10W range. As they say, a real made-for-purpose safelight is best.

I would slightly disagree that red is better than OC orange. The thing is, SOME papers are more sensitive and need the red. Others (most) are fine with orange OC. If your paper is safe with OC then in my opinion it's preferable, because your eyes are more sensitive to orange than to red, you have (a bit more anyway) color perception under orange and it's less fatiguing. But red is certainly workable.

Freestyle seems to lack a safelight in OC with a standard 5x7 filter now. The above red one is fine. I have one of these which is also fine for OC safe papers:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/325001-Arista-Darkoom-Safelight-Orange

seanE · Jan 16, 2016

Ok, So if I use one 60w and half spray it with black paint, Or put a couple of very heavy filters on it, to bring the brightness down I should be good to go for a few prints. Il blame you if I fog my paper
Dose any one know where id go about finding the correct filter for making a proper safe light in the future, I will buy one on line if I must, But surly red plexiglass is acuirabal? without paying the ''oh so your into photography premium''

calebarchie · Jan 16, 2016

Google rubylith

Jim Jones · Jan 16, 2016

I use a dimmer on a standard safelight. I can dim the light during long enlarger exposures and for first minute or so in the developer, and brighten it the rest of the time. Perhaps some low wattage red bulbs are safe, but they should be tested as others have described. Sixty watts is overkill.

fotch · Jan 16, 2016

Terms like Red are very general and almost useless for shopping unless your at a site like Freestyle and shopping in the darkroom section. Go to Kodak's site and look up darkroom Safe light specifications, then you will know what you actually need.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/ti0845/ti0845.pdf

MattKing · Jan 17, 2016

Red lights are good for other, non-photographic purposes.

Safe light bulbs/fixtures emit light that fits nicely into a region of the spectrum that the paper isn't sensitive to.

For regular, panchromatic film, safelights that are safe are so dim that you basically cannot see anything.

Changing bags work for some, but I hate using them.

See if you can convert a closet to a space for loading film. Or, schedule your film loading sessions for night, and block out or turn off any lights that might cause problems.

Many people have had luck with red LED bulbs instead of or installed in safelights. I have. But you have to be able to test them, because the ones that are sold with the necessary spectrum information are quite expensive.

I bought inexpensive ones off of the internet, and bounce them off of a high, tan coloured ceiling.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 17, 2016

I switched from orange to dark-red safelights and aftera brief sdjustment period, I'm much happier with dark red and get better highlights in the prints.a darkroom can't be too dark when it comes to print quality.

Rick A · Jan 17, 2016

seanE said:
Ok, So if I use one 60w and half spray it with black paint, Or put a couple of very heavy filters on it, to bring the brightness down I should be good to go for a few prints. Il blame you if I fog my paper
Dose any one know where id go about finding the correct filter for making a proper safe light in the future, I will buy one on line if I must, But surly red plexiglass is acuirabal? without paying the ''oh so your into photography premium''

Where are you located? If you are here in the States I will , for a $20 bill, send you a proper safe light. Just don't use those POS light bulbs from the store, they will not work.

bdial · Jan 17, 2016

I've had good luck with a Petzl red LED headlamp that i use to augment the room lighting occasionally. Also other red LED lighting. But testing is needed with pretty much any light that will be used for safe lighting, even the purpose-made ones.

seanE · Jan 17, 2016

I don't know how to test my ''red bulb'' Without opening my full pack of fomabrom, So if I darken my bulb down to 10 20 watts, Do you think I could get away with opening my paper, Whipping one sheet out to do a test, And closing it again with out running the whole pack? I'm new to all this so if my questions are stupid say so,
But I find one group of people saying they just use anything red, Be it litho tape, red bulbs, Christmas tree lights, And then an other saying I'm doomed,
I'm confused and anxious to get going, And I know all to well where that usually leads me.

Truzi · Jan 17, 2016

First, make sure your room is light-tight - no light from around doors or anything. Any stray light can affect your paper, rendering a safelight (or "darkness") a moot point. No LEDs from a DVD player, computer, electric toothbrush, etc.

Either take a sheet out of the pack in a changing bag, or...
Turn off ALL lights - not even an LED from an appliance, phone, etc.
Take out one sheet of paper in total darkness. You can even cut a strip off for testing, and put the balance back in the package. Close the envelope and box.
Finally, perform your safe-light test on that one sheet. There are plenty of APUG threads that state how you can test.

seanE · Jan 17, 2016

Ok, Thats what il do, This is probably a stupid question, But how are foma papers sealed? Are they repealable? It might cut out a lot of stumbling and cursing in the dark.:crazy:

MattKing · Jan 17, 2016

seanE said:
Ok, Thats what il do, This is probably a stupid question, But how are foma papers sealed? Are they repealable? It might cut out a lot of stumbling and cursing in the dark.:crazy:

Most papers come in an outer envelope or box with a light tight inner envelope inside. The envelope is over sized and folded over at the end. Sometimes the end of the envelope has a small piece of tape as well.

The inner envelope is sufficient to protect the paper as long as you ensure that the opening flap is completely folded over.

Roger Cole · Jan 17, 2016

Yeah, Ilford comes in a black plastic bag that's just well over sized - fold the flap down and put it back in the box. I put the flap on the bottom but that's probably not strictly necessary. I don't know about Foma but IIRC the Arista papers come in something similar. Kodak (back when they made black and white paper) used to come in an odd folder thing with a slit down the middle but that wasn't too hard to figure out either.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2016

For the first time in a completely dark room, under a blanket if necessary, open the bag, slide out the inner wrapper or bag, remove one sheet of paper, then rewrap the paper, and place it back in the original package. Now you are ready to start doing the tests listed above.

Xmas · Jan 17, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
For the first time in a completely dark room, under a blanket if necessary, open the bag, slide out the inner wrapper or bag, remove one sheet of paper, then rewrap the paper, and place it back in the original package. Now you are ready to start doing the tests listed above.

You only need to do that with colour or panchromatic paper, with VC you use a VC filter in safe light box?
I normally stick the VC in a print tube and develope in daylight after the enlarger timer switches off.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
For the first time in a completely dark room, under a blanket if necessary, open the bag, slide out the inner wrapper or bag, remove one sheet of paper, then rewrap the paper, and place it back in the original package. Now you are ready to start doing the tests listed above.

Xmas said:
You only need to do that with colour or panchromatic paper, with VC you use a VC filter in safe light box?
I normally stick the VC in a print tube and develope in daylight after the enlarger timer switches off.

I was answering this question.

seanE said:
Ok, Thats what il do, This is probably a stupid question, But how are foma papers sealed? Are they repealable? It might cut out a lot of stumbling and cursing in the dark.:crazy:

I was not talking about general usage. My dry darkroom has some light leaks but the light does not get near the paper so I do not have a problem. For loading film into sheet holders or putting film in tanks I use one of these.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/25001-Photoflex-Changing-Room

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