Newbie question: Lens/ coat scratch- will it impact

Apfel · Oct 24, 2008

Fulfilled my dream and bought a Hasselblad 500cm. I got it complete with 80mm lens and back. I was happy to pay a bit more for it than for what they usually sell for at the auction as it was a 1986 build and the back were from the same year with matching insert with an overall fantastic condition.

However after it arrived I found it had a hair fine 5mm scratch at 3 oclock on the front of the lens. What bugs me about the scratch is that on the auction side it was not mentioned and it was not noticed when I approached the seller regardless of that I dont think I will get my money back and as I said it is a great camera overall.

I ran two films through it bw and a c41 but have not got them back yet. However I think it will not show on the images at all anyway. What I am worried is flare and I looking for advice on this. Can it be corrected or would I need to buy a new lens?

If it helps I can try to take a picture of the scratch

Would love to hear your input?

Ian Grant · Oct 24, 2008

If it's just coating that's scratched off it won't make any difference, if the glass itself is scratched then under some lighting conditions it mighthave a very slight effect.

However you seem to be saying it's hardly noticeable in which case it's not going to be a problem at all.

Ian

ford prefect · Oct 24, 2008

i dont have the link but theres a guy that referbs old mf folders that had a lens he put a huge dremmle scar across the front of and just for fun ran a roll of lim thru it and in the photos he posted that were taken with the camera and lens there was no noticable results to sjow in the photo he even comented
"and for all of you woried about cleaning marks" (thats probly a little paraphrased)

Dan Henderson · Oct 24, 2008

theoretically, anything on the surface of the lens will degrade the image. Will it be enough for you to see? Perhaps you will find the answer to that when your photos are returned.

Regardless, the seller should have mentioned the scratch in his listing, and most certainly should have told you if you specifically asked about condition. I suggest you contact the seller, express your dissatisfaction, and ask that he refund an appropriate amount of the money you paid. If he does not respond satisfactorily, report that in your feedback so that others are warned.

ford prefect · Oct 24, 2008

well i cant find the pic i was looking for but heres another from the same guy the lens has a bug and a piece of metal and some bubbles in it then look at the photo taken with it below

http://www.certo6.com/gallery/planar.html

elekm · Oct 24, 2008

I've found that cleaning marks degrade an image more than a scratch.

I had 50mm Distagon for the SL66. It had numerous cleaning marks on the front element, and the photos came back with a "Leica" glow. I wasn't pleased, because it had been almost a year since I bought the lens until I had a chance to use it. (I was in the midst of a lengthy family move and job change, in case anyone is wondering.)

And most other cameras that have cleaning marks also have given me lowered contrast and softness in the center of the photo.

A single scratch however, might give you flare but shouldn't degrade the image as much. And I would use a lens shade in all situations, which should help to reduce the possibility of flare.

Mike Kennedy · Oct 24, 2008

The manager of my local camera shop gave me a Tamron lens with two huge gouges across the front.Not scratches but trenches.Looked like someone had "keyed" it.
I shot 12 exposures,half with the sun just out of the frame.

All turned out great.

Apfel · Oct 24, 2008

Thanks for all your input. Amazingly I don’t think I can see any flare or other issues on the negs either. Optics baffles me. Here is a picture of the lens:

You can see the scratch on the left top of the lense. It is hard to show it in a photograph.

The problem will be I guess the resell value of this kit. With this kind of scratch I will not get what I paid for it back. Gutted.

The seller said he never noticed a scratch so I don’t think I will be able to get any money back.

Allan Swindles · Oct 24, 2008

Go take some pictures, use the correct lens hood, shoot in as many lighting situations as possible particularly into the sun and then evaluate the results. Don't worry about resale value, you won't want to sell it.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 24, 2008

Apfel said:
The seller said he never noticed a scratch so I dont think I will be able to get any money back.

Yeah, common enough story from eBay sellers. What a tosser he is, then. How can any photographer not notice a scratch on a Hassy kit!? I've never heard of that. Fingerprints may go unnoticed, but a scratch!?

Put a HMC (Hoya) UV or 1B filter on it; this will reduce the possibility of flare but I think by the looks of it you'd need pretty strong light to encourage trouble; the scratch is on the periphery...maybe the only mercy the clumsy seller has shown you.

jbbooks · Oct 24, 2008

It does not make any difference whether he noticed it or not , the fact is he did not disclose the defect and, as you are aware, it will have a significant effect on the resale value of the lens. You are being asked to accept a loss that you should not have to take.

Do some research and see what values you can find for "ugly" 80mm Hasselblad lenses. I would suggest looking on the KEH site for a start and search the "completed sales" listings on eBay. If you did your due diligence on the purchase, you should have an idea of what both the body and the lens were each worth (with the lens in the condition he described it). When you have a number for the difference, give the seller a choice; either refund your money, including the shipping cost, on the return of everything or he pays you the difference between the value of the lens as he described it and the value of the lens as it actually is. If he refuses to do either, give him a boatload of bad feedback.

Rich Ullsmith · Oct 24, 2008

I like Ford's little link there. If I could have seen that a few years ago, probably would've saved me hours searching prints for that 2mm barely noticeable wispy scratch on my lens.

Apfel · Oct 25, 2008

Thanks for this.

As everybody said the negs show no sign at all and even shooting into the light. Admittedly it was partly cloudy but the north east is not blessed with too many sunny days… I will hopefully get one or two prints today but I don’t expect any different result.

I hope I will get some money off from the seller but not getting my hopes up. I don't really want to part with this camera TBH.

I will also try to get this filter which should help to keep the lens out of harms way.

Thank you again and hope to show some results on here soon

elekm · Oct 25, 2008

That scratch is well off center, although it's very visible. Even so, I don't think it will have significant visible impact on most of your photos.

This probably is a scratch that will affect the photos in a couple of instances in a way that you won't notice unless you're looking closely. Once you figure out what those instances are, then maybe you can avoid them.

Some people have filled such scratches with a flat black paint to reduce the possibility of flare, and you might try the same.

A filter combined with a hood will go a long way toward protecting the lens, and the hood will be more effective at preventing flare.

Q.G. · Oct 25, 2008

Just an additional note:
It doesn't matter where the scratch is. The entire front lens is used in the image forming process. Even with the lens stopped down.

Only two things do matter:
- The size of the scratch, proportional to the surface area of the front lens.
- How much light the edges of the scratch will scatter, and in what direction. Even a tiny scratch can cause flare.

Phillip P. Dimor · Oct 25, 2008

I purchased an 80mm C lens with scratch as it's price was so low.. I knew that there was a scratch going into the buy. Otherwise i'm happy with the lens. I don't plan on replacing it, the scratch doesn't bother me.

My problem is that I think i'd rather have the 100mm C lens.. Ah well.
I do use a good lens hood, and I generally do not shoot outdoors and into the sun. There probably is flare on a few of my shots but I don't notice it.

Simon Gulliver · Oct 26, 2008

This may be a daft suggestion but I have seen marks that look like scratches simply wipe off with careful cleaning if it turns out to be a mark on the coating rather than through it.

geneacom · Oct 26, 2008

I remember what I heard many, many years ago: Filling the scratch with Indian Ink should do the trick, but I don't have any experience with that.
So, it's on your own risc! I don't remember the explanation why it should work. Maybe you can do a test by making a scratch on a piece of glass and then take a piccure through the glass?
--- Rob ---

Mark Layne · Oct 26, 2008

Apfel said:
Thanks for all your input. Amazingly I dont think I can see any flare or other issues on the negs either. Optics baffles me. Here is a picture of the lens:

You can see the scratch on the left top of the lense. It is hard to show it in a photograph.

The problem will be I guess the resell value of this kit. With this kind of scratch I will not get what I paid for it back. Gutted.

The seller said he never noticed a scratch so I dont think I will be able to get any money back.

That scratch is insignificant/Forget about it
Mark

Apfel · Oct 28, 2008

Thank you all again for your help and input.

I bought a hassy lens hood and a UV filter and hope these will fit and minimize the chance of flare.

Turns out the seller is a genuine guy and will refund me the requested amount. I am so please it all turned out OK and hopefully I will never have to sell the camera

Thank you again you all have been most helpful with this plight

Q.G. · Oct 28, 2008

Apfel said:
I bought a hassy lens hood and a UV filter and hope these will fit and minimize the chance of flare.

The hood will.
But the filter will only increase the chance of flare.

elekm · Oct 28, 2008

Given the choice, I'd rather have a lens with an off-center scratch than one with cleaning marks.

Well, given the choice, I'd rather have neither, but if it was one or the other, I'd take the scratch over cleaning marks any day.

Apfel · Oct 29, 2008

Q.G. said:
The hood will.
But the filter will only increase the chance of flare.

:confused:

I am confused... I thought it would help to keep the flare out?

Would the 1b have been better?

MattKing · Oct 29, 2008

Apfel said:
:confused:

I am confused... I thought it would help to keep the flare out?

Would the 1b have been better?

Any time you add 1 or more air/glass surfaces, you increase the possibility for flare.

So it's not so much the type of filter that matters, but the fact that there is another piece of glass in front. The quality of the filter does matter.

That being said, the effect of a single filter on flare is less than a lot of other potential sources, and the protection and ease of cleaning offered by the filter may very well be more important than the potential for flare.

Matt

Newbie question: Lens/ coat scratch- will it impact

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