newbie question - film developers

temujin · Dec 10, 2006

hi, i have been developing my film exclusively with d-76 for the past year, and the results are ok, but they could perhaps be better. i am unfamiliar with the benefits of many of the other developers mentioned here, such as rodinal and pyro. i shoot 120 film and use mostly plus-x, sometimes fp4. what developer would you recommend?

Markok765 · Dec 10, 2006

Pyrocat-HD is very good.
I happen to use rodinal, and i find it very good on my MF rolls, and for pushing 35mm film.
Rodinal is very high sharpness, also a lot of grain, but it wont matter, as you are shooting plus-x and MF.
Try rodinal.

jim appleyard · Dec 10, 2006

It's not the developer, but the photographer! There is no special brew, although many photographers do have their favorites and least favorites. D-76 is not great at anything, but good at everything. There are dev which give finer grain, better accutance, and perhaps better tonality (subjective), but D-76 does a good job at covering all of those things. It's a developer I find myself coming back to all the time. It's readily available, and does a good job on nearly every film made.

Having said that, I also like Rodinal for Plus-X and WD2D+ from the Formulary. I use Rodinal mainly for slow films and for mediumk format up to ISO 125. It can get a bit grainy for faster films, but that's desired sometimes. The tonality of Tri-X in Rodinal is great!

WD2D+ is a favorite: no burned out hightlights and shadows with detail; that's helpful as I shoot a lot of contrasty images.

Learn D-76 for a bit longer as it takes awhile for a photographer to learn what a film/dev combo can do and can't do. Perhaps you should increase/decrease your dev time or the amount you agitate the film. Perhaps you should increase/decrease your exposure. Change only one of these variable at a time. If D-76 still isn't doing what you want, then change, but you'll have to learn another film/dev combo all over again.

Ole · Dec 10, 2006

D-76 is the closest you can get to a "universal film developer": It gives very good results with all films under all conditions. You should have a very good reason to switch to something else.

Personally I use Ilfotec HC for the perfectly good reason that I got hold of 5 liters of it - cheap. Since I use it at 1:32, that will last me long enough to get used to it. I switched from Rodinal in "mid-bottle", and I don't think I'll ever use the rest of the Rodinal.

reellis67 · Dec 10, 2006

What is it about your current results that you don't like? Before you change anything it is important to know what about what you are getting you want to change, then change one thing only and work with it until you understand the difference. I use only Rodinal and Perceptol, depending on the film, although I do have some Diafine on hand.

I like the look of Rodinal (1:100 [or 1:200 stand]) with Pan F+ and FP4+ and use Perceptol (1:3) with HP5+ and Tri-X, but as the others have already stated, you'll get as many different answers as people answering.

- Randy

dancqu · Dec 10, 2006

temujin said:
Hi, I have been developing my film exclusively
with d-76 for the past year,

What dilutions have you tried? One-shot or
is it back in the bottle each usage? Dan

Gerald Koch · Dec 11, 2006

I second what JIm has said. Don't go jumping around trying different developers at this point. You should be able to get what you want with D-76. If your results are not what you want then you should look first at your development method.

Neal · Dec 11, 2006

Dear temujin,

I second the comment from Mr. Appleyard. A lot of things go into making a good photograph but by far the biggest factors are the photographer and printer. Many wonderful photographs have been made with FP4 or Plus-X and D-76 so the materials are not the problem.

Having said that, searching for the perfect film/developer is a quest that everyone should go on, at least for a little while. It is truly good fun.

Neal Wydra

temujin · Dec 11, 2006

dancqu said:
What dilutions have you tried? One-shot or
is it back in the bottle each usage? Dan

i have been using it one-shot at 1:1 dilution. is there a major difference in the quality of the negs when you use it straight, rather than 1:1?

temujin · Dec 11, 2006

thanks, all of your input has been very helpful. i still have a lot to learn working with d-76, so perhaps i should stick with it awhile as many of you have suggested. i was wondering about his issue because most of the posts i have read here about developers seem to center more on developers other than d-76, so i thought maybe i was missing out on something.

Mark_S · Dec 11, 2006

When I use D-76, I usually use it 1:1.
I also tend to overexpose and underdevelop vs the box suggestions, which I find to be very forgiving.

I don't remember my times for plus-x, as I don't use it anymore since they discontinued it, but for Tri-X, I would use an EI of 200, and develop 8 mins in 1:1 D-76 at 20C.

jim appleyard · Dec 11, 2006

Mark_S said:
I don't remember my times for plus-x, as I don't use it anymore since they discontinued it...QUOTE]

When did this happen? Unless you mean sheet film?

nworth · Dec 11, 2006

D-76 is one of the finest developers around. Stay with it until you are happy. Once you have tuned your technique, you will have a standard againt which you can compare anything else. It takes a quite a bit of practice to get your darkroom technique working right - at least several months at a couple of times a week. (I've found out the hard way that you can also lose it if you don't keep practicing regularly.)

Other developers are not particularly better, but they may produce a slightly different look. Once you have mastered D-76, you may want to look at Rodinal (grainy, but sharp looking) or Pyrocat-HD (a little softer, but a lot like D-76), or some of the others.

MMfoto · Dec 11, 2006

temujin said:
... so i thought maybe i was missing out on something.

You may be missing out on something, heck, you always will be. Work with what you have untill you've mastered it to the point that you can say " I'm just not getting the ___ that I'm looking for."

I just wish I'd taken that route!

dancqu · Dec 11, 2006

temujin said:
I have been using it one-shot at 1:1 dilution.

If I were using D-76 one-shot I'd go at least 1:3. At that
dilution many would say you can expect sharper images.
There is a lot of chemistry in D-76 especialy sodium
sulfite. Up your times if you give it a try.

Likely another can comment better than I on the effect
of high sulfite developers on producing sharp images. At
higher dilutions D-76 becomes a low sulfite developer.

I process 120 with solution volumes of 1/2 liter. Dan

Mark_S · Dec 11, 2006

jim appleyard said:
Mark_S said:

I don't remember my times for plus-x, as I don't use it anymore since they discontinued it...QUOTE]

When did this happen? Unless you mean sheet film?

Click to expand...

Correct, I shoot mostly 4x5, when kodak discontinued Plus-X, I started using mostly Ilford. Please Ilford - don't abandon me......

srs5694 · Dec 11, 2006

temujin said:
i was wondering about his issue because most of the posts i have read here about developers seem to center more on developers other than d-76, so i thought maybe i was missing out on something.

For some reason, people tend to get passionate about certain developers -- there are (half-)jokes about the "Church of Rodinal," for instance, and people seem to either love XTOL or hate it. There's also a lot of discussion about mix-it-yourself developers because there's a lot to learn about mixing them, so that generates discussion. D-76, by comparison, is something that most people who've done B&W film developing know already, and few people seem to get passionate about it, so it generates little discussion. This doesn't mean it's a bad developer or even that it's unpopular (it may be the most popular developer out there, in fact).

Gerald Koch · Dec 12, 2006

srs5694 said:
For some reason, people tend to get passionate about certain developers

It's not only certain developers but also some development methods and techniques. Some of these are not what I would recommend for routine or everyday use, yet alone to someone who is new to developing. Check Kodak's website for information and look at the information about D-76. Regretably, it's not as easy to use as before with the emphacise on digital, but the information is still there.

Stick with D-76, it is very versatile. You can use it FS or diluted as much as 1+3. Once you are completely familiar with what it can do then you are ready to try something else, if you wish.

gainer · Dec 12, 2006

Some of my best photos were developed in D-76 diluted 1+1. It is easily home brewed. The most expensive part of it is the sulfite, which is cheaper when bought in larger quantities from a place like www.chemistrystore.com.

don sigl · Dec 12, 2006

Pyrocat is a very good choice. Granted, you need to know how to use the tools. But Ptrocat is a very well made tool

ymc226 · Dec 12, 2006

what about HC-110

Is the chemical make up of HC-110 similar to D-76? Since I don't want to throw away unused D-76 after 6 months (I am not that active in the darkroom), I use HC-110 syrup that I mix right before I develop film. I understand that HC-110 can keep for years. What are the general experiences of HC-110 with film such as Plus X or Foma 200 medium format. My EIs for Plus X with HC-110 (B) and Rodinal (1:50) have been 160 and for Foma with HC-110 (B) is 160 using a densitometer and Ansel Adam's method in The Negative.

Gerald Koch · Dec 12, 2006

The chemical composition of HC-110 is nothing like that of D-76. However, it has been formulated to produce results very similar to those of D-76. I dilute HC-110 syrup 1:50 just before use and use development times 1.5X those for dil B. The resulting negatives produce very pleasing prints.

Look at the Unofficial HC-110 site http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ for more information.

buze · Dec 12, 2006

I started with Ilfotec DDX, because it's readily available around here, and is very practical to use -- it also was mentioned as giving good results so I sticked to it for some time.
I then bought some D76, but never mixed it. I don't have a 3.8L container, nor the room for it...
Instead I picked some rodinal (very practical, economical and has a "look" to it) and mixing my own (Barry Thornston 2 bath)..

I still use DDX to push film; I use Rodinal when I want some grain, and use Barry's for the rest.

The easiest to use is clearly Barry's 2 bath. No problem with temperature, and every film uses the same time (4:00 + 4:00 for rolls, 5:00 + 5:00 for sheets!) ! Can't make it easier than that...

nyoung · Dec 19, 2006

D_76 dilutions

temujin said:
i have been using it one-shot at 1:1 dilution. is there a major difference in the quality of the negs when you use it straight, rather than 1:1?

You can get just about anything out of D-76 with patience.
As D-76 gets weaker - diluted or "worn out" from reuse - the negative generally gets softer (lower contrast.) HP5 is crisp and contrasty in full strength at 68F - great for indoor/soft light. Same film stock shot outdoors on a sunny day would be too contrasty for most so I compensate by diluting 1:1 or more. I worked for years in a newspaper where we reused straight D-76 out of a gallon jug. I developed a personal system where I kept a jug of almost worn out developer for film I know was going be too high contrast to print well. As you dilute, times must go up - often into 20 minute range. Agitation also plays a role in contrast control - the more you shake the more contrast you get in the neg.
As an extreme example, here's a formula I developed and used for years in my high school photo darkroom (Techno elitiests please quit reading here) 35mm HP5 @ ISO 1600 - worn out D-76 (you might dilute 1:4 or 5 to experiment) at 68F, drop the reel into the full developing can then cap it (this helps avoid surface bubbles as the film falls through the developer), develop for 24 minutes, no agitation after the initial shake, water wash - fill and dump three cycles, fix in rapid fix w/hardner. Yields printable negs with good range, shadow detail and highlights considering the underexposure.

gainer · Dec 20, 2006

In the past 65 years I have used many developers on many films. Even at the beginning, I had some idea of what results I wanted, and I found that most of the developers could give me what I wanted, but maybe not on the first roll or two. The difference between them was largely in the convenience of use. From age 40 on I played in symphony orchestras in the Tidewater VA area and would take pictures of guest artists at rehearsal, rush into the darkroom (upstairs bathroom was "Bath by appointment only") and have prints to give to the artist the next day at the concert. I needed a developer I didn't have to fuss with. There were several, including D-76 replenished, D-76 diluted, Acufine, Diafine, and a number of home-brewed concoctions. I got good photos from all of them.
My criteria were ease of use, consistency of results, and good film speed. These were, of course, unposed available light photos. Anything else I could finagle in the printing.
If you learn all the ins and outs of D-76, you will have a knowledge base, most of which you can apply to any other developer. Not the actual numbers, mind you, but the methods for learning the numbers. There is an adage "If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he eats for the rest of his life." You can teach yourself how to fish for the numbers like time and temperature.
Enough lecturing.

newbie question - film developers

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