Newbie looking for first MF gear - opinions please

JBrunner · Nov 30, 2009

I'll go out on the limb... If you want a big neg, in a light weight and portable camera with outstanding lens choices and the utmost in control, take a moment to consider a light weight folding 4x5 field camera like a Tachihara. A kit with three lenses doesn't really take much more room or weight that a MF kit, and the tripod for a MF is equally applicable. With careful shopping it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and 4x5 enlargers can be had for a song these days. With proper choices you can easily have near grain-less 16x20. Since you shoot landscape you will soon come to appreciate the focus and perspective control, enough so that you probably will wonder how you ever got by without movements. It may seem intimidating, but it isn't that hard. One box of film puts you there. Perhaps it is for you, and perhaps not, but I think it is well worth a couple minutes of serious consideration.

CBG · Nov 30, 2009

I'd add a couple of items to your good list...

nolanr66 said:
... few basic choices. ...

645: Mamiya, Mamiya AF/AFD, Bronica, Pentax AFD. (medium weight)
6x7 RF: Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji fixed lens auto focus (lightest weight, limits the use of filters)
6x6: Hasslblad (I'd say comparatively light weight!)
6x6 Yashica twin lens cameras light weight, very low cost. basic
6x6 Mamiya C330 not quite as light but very versatile with interchangeable glass!
6x6 Rollieflex high quality and cost.
6x7 SLR: Mamiya RB/RZ best on tripod for most folk, but not all. the 50mm is great lens
6x7 Pentax 67 and 67II handles like very big 35mm camera - the 45mm is great lens
6x7 Plaubel Makina check out www.kenrockwell.com/tech/plaubel.htm modest size + great quality

Venchka · Nov 30, 2009

And now, for something completely different...............

By a Yashicamat 124, Minolta Autocord or Mamiya TLR. Find out if you really like medium format. The 6x6 negatives allow cropping to 6x4.5 or not. If you find 6x6 isn't large enough than go to 6x7. Maybe you will find that 6x6 is just right. The Mamiya TLRs offer wide & tele lenses AND close focusing (closer than other TLRs and most SLRs without resorting to extra hardware). Buy right and you can recoup all/most of your money towards the MF system you want. You may find that a TLR is all you need.

Venchka · Nov 30, 2009

CBG said:
...

6x7 Pentax 67 and 67II handles like very big 35mm camera - the 45mm is great lens

Amen! The 105mm & 150mm aren't too shabby either and faster than most MF lenses.

Teriann · Nov 30, 2009

Since people have started mentioning the Pentax67 I might add that it is a very rugged camera well suited for field work under adverse conditions. It has long been a popular choice for expedition photographers shooting medium format.

I carry mine in a hip pack with 45mm, 75mm and 135mm lens's and a Pentax spot meter. The other lens's don't get out all that often for just random shooting. The 300mm lens is a monster.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 30, 2009

JBrunner said:
I'll go out on the limb... If you want a big neg, in a light weight and portable camera with outstanding lens choices and the utmost in control, take a moment to consider a light weight folding 4x5 field camera like a Tachihara. A kit with three lenses doesn't really take much more room or weight that a MF kit, and the tripod for a MF is equally applicable. With careful shopping it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and 4x5 enlargers can be had for a song these days. With proper choices you can easily have near grain-less 16x20. Since you shoot landscape you will soon come to appreciate the focus and perspective control, enough so that you probably will wonder how you ever got by without movements. It may seem intimidating, but it isn't that hard. One box of film puts you there. Perhaps it is for you, and perhaps not, but I think it is well worth a couple minutes of serious consideration.

I was thinking about that but did have the guts to mention it. I second this proposal as worth considering.

Venchka · Nov 30, 2009

And if you get very lucky, you can stumble into a 4x5 starter set for $100 like I did.

That's the good news.

The bad news? One never stops at a starter set.

tkamiya · Nov 30, 2009

Thank you everybody for their input. At this time, I do not want to get into large format/sheet film. I do see the benefit but it's a bit much for my needs and wants.

Leighgion · Nov 30, 2009

Venchka said:
The bad news? One never stops at a starter set.

Nah, the bad news is the severe logical contortions necessary to convince yourself a camera that can't be shot handheld qualifies as light and easy to carry.

pollux · Nov 30, 2009

the RZ67 Pro II is big. you can't go wrong, however don't expect to use it without a tripod for any mid, tele lenses. the normal and wideangle ones can be handheld.

mikebarger · Nov 30, 2009

I should have followed Jason and Ralph's suggestion of jumping straight to 4x5. The only problem I can see; I wouldn't have a Hasselblad to go along with my Zone VI 4x5

Mike

Venchka · Nov 30, 2009

A small but select club

mikebarger said:
I should have followed Jason and Ralph's suggestion of jumping straight to 4x5. The only problem I can see; I wouldn't have a Hasselblad to go along with my Zone VI 4x5

Mike

You too? Who knew? In my case, the Zone VI came first.

Chazzy · Nov 30, 2009

As a Koni-Omega/Rapid-Omega fan, I feel obliged to mention that these cameras are an ideal introduction to the 6x7 format, unless one truly needs the features of a 6x7 SLR. They are inexpensive in the used market, the lenses are excellent and they are built like tanks. They are not light in comparison to something like a 35mm point and shoot, but I don't find them to be heavy in comparison to the alternative of 6x7 SLRs, particularly with a good neck strap. They handle very well for hand-held operation (one of the reasons why they were favored by wedding photographers), and film advance and shutter cocking are both accomplished at the same time with a very fast motion (it sounds a little like operating a pump shotgun). Film flatness is excellent. Macro can be accomplished with the "Auto-Up" accessories, although an SLR might be easier. With some models of Koni and Rapid-Omegas, film magazines can be changed in the middle of a roll (for example, to switch from black and white to color). And expert service is still available in the United States from Greg Weber.

For some reason, whenever someone mentions an interest in the 6x7 format there are many posts in support of the RB/RZ 67 and the Mamiya 7, and very little is said about the inexpensive Koni- and Rapid-Omega alternatives. I hope that this will help to address the imbalance of advice.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 30, 2009

Leighgion said:
Nah, the bad news is the severe logical contortions necessary to convince yourself a camera that can't be shot handheld qualifies as light and easy to carry.

I have not shot a single picture without a tripod in years. And yes, I do travel. All I can say is Manfrotto 3021S. I think 'S' is for 'short'. To me, hand-held is a compromise, sometimes necessary but rarely good.

Sirius Glass · Nov 30, 2009

CBG said:
I'd add a couple of items to your good list...645: Mamiya, Mamiya AF/AFD, Bronica, Pentax AFD. (medium weight)
6x7 RF: Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji fixed lens auto focus (lightest weight, limits the use of filters)
6x6: Hasslblad (I'd say comparatively light weight!)
6x6 Yashica twin lens cameras light weight, very low cost. basic
6x6 Mamiya C330 not quite as light but very versatile with interchangeable glass!
6x6 Rollieflex high quality and cost.
6x7 SLR: Mamiya RB/RZ best on tripod for most folk, but not all. the 50mm is great lens
6x7 Pentax 67 and 67II handles like very big 35mm camera - the 45mm is great lens
6x7 Plaubel Makina check out www.kenrockwell.com/tech/plaubel.htm modest size + great quality

Addition in Bold

645: Mamiya, Mamiya AF/AFD, Bronica, Pentax AFD. (medium weight)
6x7 RF: Mamiya 6 or 7, Fuji fixed lens auto focus (lightest weight, limits the use of filters)
6x6 and 645: Hasslblad (I'd say comparatively light weight!)
6x6 Yashica twin lens cameras light weight, very low cost. basic
6x6 Mamiya C330 not quite as light but very versatile with interchangeable glass!
6x6 Rollieflex high quality and cost.
6x7 SLR: Mamiya RB/RZ best on tripod for most folk, but not all. the 50mm is great lens
6x7 Pentax 67 and 67II handles like very big 35mm camera - the 45mm is great lens
6x7 Plaubel Makina check out www.kenrockwell.com/tech/plaubel.htm modest size + great quality

With the Hasselblad you can shoot either 645 or 6x6 by changing the back and added a viewfinder mask. Why limit yourself? Save money.

Steve

mikebarger · Nov 30, 2009

Chazzy

I agree about the Koni's. I got a 100 for next to nothing and keep it in the truck with an Luna pro SBC for those wish I had a camera moments. They are really tough and the lens are excellent performers.

I wonder if they are not rated better on the used market because such a high percentage were pro rigs (just a guess). Maybe it's the push/pull film advance?

Mike

Chazzy · Nov 30, 2009

mikebarger said:
Chazzy

I agree about the Koni's. I got a 100 for next to nothing and keep it in the truck with an Luna pro SBC for those wish I had a camera moments. They are really tough and the lens are excellent performers.

I wonder if they are not rated better on the used market because such a high percentage were pro rigs (just a guess). Maybe it's the push/pull film advance?

Mike

That thought has never crossed my mind. To me the push/pull film advance is a plus, since it makes it possible to work very quickly (especially after one has gotten the hang of it).

My guess would have been that Koni-Omegas don't get mentioned because they are so downright inexpensive. Many of us are inclined to doubt that anything cheap can be so good. Or maybe some people look down on wedding photographer gear?

Leighgion · Nov 30, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
I have not shot a single picture without a tripod in years. And yes, I do travel. All I can say is Manfrotto 3021S. I think 'S' is for 'short'. To me, hand-held is a compromise, sometimes necessary but rarely good.

Meanwhile to me, a tripod is an albatross that I'll tolerate at need, but no more.

I expect we're shooting entirely different subjects by preference.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 30, 2009

Leighgion said:
...I expect we're shooting entirely different subjects by preference.

Very likely, I do mostly models in the studio, landscapes and church interiors.

Venchka · Nov 30, 2009

I have a 3021S. Brilliant tripod. Damn shame they aren't made anymore. I'm glad I got mine when I did.

The Konis were one of the preferred wedding cameras in the 70s. I suppose the Hasselblad was the other. Tough as nails. 3 cold shoes. You could attach a meter, WA viewfinder and flash on top. The cable release attached to the grip seems to be missing on most cameras you see for sale today. That was a great feature.

tkamiya,

I posted this in another similar thread. The camera is located in San Antoinio, TX.

Venchka said:
Last summer, there was a guy in San Antonio, Texas begging me to buy his 100 for $125. He may still have it.

http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum/buy-sell/68105-fs-koni-omega-rapid-100-a.html#post945905

I owned a 100 in the early 70s. I still have some of my negatives from the 90mm lens. Great lens. Great camera. I always regretted not having the 200 and an extra back or two. On the other hand, I have a Pentax 6x7 and no extra backs.

Tony-S · Nov 30, 2009

tkamiya said:
Currently, I am looking at Mamiya M645 series (later ones) and Bronica GS-1. Would anyone like to share experience in either of the cameras in my intended use?

I have a GS-1 with 120 and 220 backs, AE Finder, Speed Grip, and 50mm, 100mm and 150mm lenses. Here are my thoughts in regard to your questions:

1) weight - both are said to be lighter with use of plastic

It is very light relative to the other 6x7 cameras, but the prism finder adds a fair amount of weight to it.

2) maintenance - repairs are expensive but both are highly modular. For the cost of most repair, I can just get another and replace.

I've not had issues other than scratching on the film with one of my backs, but that was rectified by switching the inserts between the backs. Tamron will work on them, but there are other places that service Bronica as well.

3) GS-1 is not that common but K&H seems to have a few in stock (would this be an issue?)

It's probably the hardest to find of all the 6x7 cameras.

4) both have grips that will make hand-hold use easier

I find the grip indispensable (especially for vertical shooting), but probably not if using a waste-level finder. The shutter button is a little sensitive, so I have to keep my finger off of it until I'm ready to shoot.

5) both can be purchased with metering prizm - good for newbies like me!

I really don't have a strong opinion on this, but I do like the meter in the AE Finder and it gives very accurate readings (center-weighted).

I am very happy with the camera and don't think I'd be as happy with any of the smaller formats available. It produces fabulous images, handles like a big 35mm camera, and is a real pleasure to use for landscape work here in the Rockies.

tkamiya · Nov 30, 2009

This place should really have a warning....

** Visiting this forum can be hazardous to your financial well-being and ability to sleep soundly at night **

Now, all kinds of weird thoughts are coming into my mind.... such as buying a press camera, walking up to a person and ask if I may take his/her picture, then pull out a huge press camera and go ka-chunk!

Dave Pritchard · Nov 30, 2009

mikebarger said:
Chazzy

I agree about the Koni's. I got a 100 for next to nothing and keep it in the truck with an Luna pro SBC for those wish I had a camera moments. They are really tough and the lens are excellent performers.

I wonder if they are not rated better on the used market because such a high percentage were pro rigs (just a guess). Maybe it's the push/pull film advance?

Mike

Maybe it is one of the ugliest cameras ever made. Like it has a 1975 haircut.

Mike1234 · Dec 1, 2009

My dog is ugly as hell but he's a really great dog and I like him anyway. Come to think of it... I ain't too purty myself.

K-O's a nice looking cameras, IMHO. Besides, looking uncommon/different can be a plus.

Venchka · Dec 1, 2009

Yep!

Mike1234 said:
My dog is ugly as hell but he's a really great dog and I like him anyway. Come to think of it... I ain't too purty myself.

K-O's a nice looking cameras, IMHO. Besides, looking uncommon/different can be a plus.

Just like the ugly as sin M5 is a chick magnet.

In Texas.

Newbie looking for first MF gear - opinions please

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