Newbie looking for advice

Nessy · Sep 19, 2016

Hi all,

I have a very modest photography GCSE under my belt from a decade ago and I really want to get back into B+W photography, but I was wondering whether you could help me with guidance and your opinion on a camera I might buy.

I have found a Minolta Dynax 500si Super camera but having never used a Minolta I don't know how wise a purchase that would be? I was also hoping you might be able to give me an idea of a price point you would find normal for this!

Apart from that any reading material you might suggest would be great or advice on where in London is the best to buy materials/develop film!

I'm sure I'll have more questions soon enough but I wanted to say hi and thank you for all the information I've already found lurking in the forums!

Thank you,

Nessy

AgX · Sep 19, 2016

Welcome to Apug!

Choosing a SLR often also means binding oneself to a certain lens mount and thus at certain range of lenses. Here the prices may vary quite depending on the request for that very lens family.
So the decision will go beyond the camera itself. Though if one dislikes a certain model the whole lens range would be useless...

Cameras can be bought serviced with warranty but also for full risico at fleamarkets. Which way to go depends ones technical abililty. The latter way though is a cheap way to try a model.

darkroommike · Sep 19, 2016

If you already have a digital kit look for a film body that uses the same lens mount. The Minolta Maxxum and the Konica Minolta and Sony cameras all use the same mount. Nikon to Nikon. Canon EOS to Canon, Pentax to Pentax. And so on. If you do not have a digital kit but think one might be in your future the same recommendation applies. If not, think about a 120 TLR.

pietb961 · Sep 19, 2016

Hi Nessy,

Check out West End Cameras in London, on Tottenham Ct Rd. One of their staff members (young guy) was very friendly/helpful and they were accommodating to my combined inexperience/weird developing demands.

One of my rolls came out with a very thin linear streak/scratch but otherwise good service - hard to tell if it was their fault or my camera'a.

Big range of film available at reasonable prices, at least in the U.K...

AgX · Sep 19, 2016

Aside of feeling attracted to a certain model (for whatever reason) one should think about what features one would like to have with that camera. Here the scope of possibilities is huge.

Nessy · Sep 20, 2016

pietb961 said:
Hi Nessy,

Check out West End Cameras in London, on Tottenham Ct Rd. One of their staff members (young guy) was very friendly/helpful and they were accommodating to my combined inexperience/weird developing demands.

One of my rolls came out with a very thin linear streak/scratch but otherwise good service - hard to tell if it was their fault or my camera'a.

Big range of film available at reasonable prices, at least in the U.K...

Thank you so much!!

Nessy · Sep 20, 2016

darkroommike said:
If you already have a digital kit look for a film body that uses the same lens mount. The Minolta Maxxum and the Konica Minolta and Sony cameras all use the same mount. Nikon to Nikon. Canon EOS to Canon, Pentax to Pentax. And so on. If you do not have a digital kit but think one might be in your future the same recommendation applies. If not, think about a 120 TLR.

Thank you so much for your advice! I actually don't have anything at the moment (I am seriously lapsed) which is why I wanted to start with a camera at the lower end of the spectrum so I can spend more money more wisely later on!

Nessy · Sep 20, 2016

AgX said:
Aside of feeling attracted to a certain model (for whatever reason) one should think about what features one would like to have with that camera. Here the scope of possibilities is huge.

AgX said:
Welcome to Apug!

Choosing a SLR often also means binding oneself to a certain lens mount and thus at certain range of lenses. Here the prices may vary quite depending on the request for that very lens family.
So the decision will go beyond the camera itself. Though if one dislikes a certain model the whole lens range would be useless...

Cameras can be bought serviced with warranty but also for full risico at fleamarkets. Which way to go depends ones technical abililty. The latter way though is a cheap way to try a model.

Thank you for your advice, my choise of camera right now is more guided by the fact that I want to start up slowly and get back into it before i really choose a specific camera, I'm going to have to re-learn a lot of things so I want to just get back to shooting first and then invest properly, if that makes sense!

AgX · Sep 21, 2016

That makes perfect sense.

anfenglin · Sep 22, 2016

Well, if you buy a Minolta Dynax with autofocus and program mode and whatnot, you are not going to learn anything. The camera makes a lot of things for you.
My suggestion is looking for a manual camera with built in light meter, something like a pentax ME super or even a cheap M42 Praktica or something and then you can learn something.
You'll learn about depth-of field, and how that affects your pictures, manual focus is also very important IMHO, autofocus is just stupid, it is never where I want it.
Manual focus lets you compose your pictures better, it slows you down, you start to think about a picture, not just click, whirr, done.
I've completely gone off electronics, apart from my hand held meter which I sometimes bring, but only, when it is really important to me that the pictures have to be perfect.
Good luck!

removed account4 · Sep 22, 2016

hi nessy

if i was to do it all over again, i would do it the same way i did it originally.
i learned photography through high school and college classes using a pentax k1000
( and towards the end a yashica twin lens reflex 124matg )
manual cameras help give a greater understanding and really allow you to take more creative control over your "stuff".
don't get me wrong, i also have more automated things, but that was all purchased after
i understood the workings of my materials/chemistry, light, camera &c.
i've never used a minolata but i am sure that brand is as capable as any other.
you will might have opened up a "brand war" and "SLRvsRF" and "35mm VS MF VS LF VS ULF VS... "
can of worms with this thread, no need to worry, people love whatever they love..

best of luck !
john

AgX · Sep 22, 2016

The Pentax K1000 is one of the few SLRs I just do not advise, because it just has no means to pre-view the DOF-effects of apertures.
(I thus never understood how that camera could have become a standard training camera in America.)

Not trying to open a can of worms, just emphasizing some aspect, once we started to have it about learning the basics.

removed account4 · Sep 22, 2016

AgX said:
The Pentax K1000 is one of the few SLRs I just do not advise, because it just has no means to pre-view the DOF-effects of apertures.
(I thus never understood how that camera could have become a standard training camera in America.)

Not trying to open a can of worms, just emphasizing some aspect, once we started to have it about learning the basics.

hi agx

ive never once used a DOF preview lever, even in the cameras i have that offer it.
the pentax lens have little marks on the focus ring of the lens that relate to DOF and what might not be in focus
... i am guessing that might work to figure out DOF too if one is in a pinch.
but to be honest, i've never found any use whatsoever in that button or the dial-thing. thankfully my photographs have never had
to do with any sort of critical DOF other than wide open or almost wide open,or stopped down/almost stopped down all the way ...

have fun!
john

sportster44 · Sep 22, 2016

Nessy, can't talk about Minolta as I never shot it, but more automation will get in the way of learning your craft.

Another option camera -wise would be the Canon AE-1 or older Canon f-1. The AE-1 provide some automation in terms of aperture if wanted and is cheap. The F-1 is not as cheap, built like a brick, completely manual, with a built in meter. Lenses for both are plentiful and reasonably priced.

ac12 · Sep 22, 2016

I also agree with the idea of going with a fully manual camera. But that is IF you want to have full control over the exposure and focus.
Some people don't care, and a fully automatic camera will fit them better. Some automatic cameras can be manually controlled, but not all.
There is no one right way, you have to decide which way YOU want to go.

Example, I am more of a technician, so a fully manual camera is my preferred choice. But others are more artistic, and a fully manual camera gets in the way of their artistic way of working. I had a friend who gave his daughter a Hasselblad for her graduation present. Several months later she gave the Hasselblad back to him, and went back to her simple inexpensive Kodak Instamatic. The complexity of using the Hasselblad got in the way of her artistic photography and she was frustrated using it.

And there is nothing wrong with having both types of cameras. A camera is nothing more than a tool. A good craftsman will select the appropriate tool for the job/task. Because in hindsight, I see the falicy of my relying 100% on my manual SLR, and thus missed many of the spontaneous family activity that a small auto film camera would have been able to catch, or even a simple box camera. Yes, I am kicking myself in the butt for that dumb decision many years ago.

One thing to watch out for is the battery. Some cameras (like the Nikkormat FTn) use a mercury battery which is no longer available. There is a replacement, but that battery only lasts 3 months once the seal is opened, so it can get expensive over several years. Also some older cameras have troublesome meters which are expensive/difficult to repair, as the parts are no longer available from the manufacturer.

gud luk

Retina49 · Sep 28, 2016

This question speaks to me, so I'll share two suggestions that helped me when I was getting into b/w shooting and developing.

First, consider asking older friends and relatives for unused film cameras they may have sitting about. I started shooting b/w with a camera not unlike the Minolta you mention. It was a Canon Rebel G that was used by its original owner to take vacation snapshots in program mode with a kit zoom. Plastic, motorized, and automated...but it could be put into manual mode, the meter was accurate, and I picked up a sharp 50mm very cheap. I still carry it occasionally: it's light and tough, and good enough that I can't blame it for my mistakes. My teacher in b/w developing didn't mind what kind of camera we used, as long as we could experiment with exposure values manually.

Second, buddy up with fellow addicts and ask to try their gear. A friend loaned me his Nikon FM for a weekend, and I was hooked. It helped me decide that I really felt comfortable with the Nikon small bodies. I eventually picked up an FM3a that is now my favorite camera.

Good luck, and have fun!

AgX · Sep 28, 2016

Retina49 said:
Second, buddy up with fellow addicts and ask to try their gear.

That though necessitates to have fellows around. That sure is the case for Nessy in London, but not for many other people becoming interested in analog photography.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 28, 2016

Just because a digital camera uses the same mount as a film camera does not mean that lens interchangeability works well. One must consider lens design. The two systems use different design criteria. Digital lenses are subject to a different set of aberrations than lenses for analog cameras. For example digital lenses are designed to deliver light rays closer to perpendicular to the sensor plane. This is not the case for lenses designed for film cameras.

AgX · Sep 28, 2016

Film is less critical for angle of rays than a sensor, thus any lens would do for film, so to say, concerning the aspect of optics.

BMbikerider · Sep 28, 2016

A lot of sense has been said before this post, but if you are starting off from scratch, how about thinking about a used Nikon manual focus camera. They have the same lens mount right up to the Nikon F6, their last film camera. There is a company in Scotland called Ffordes who are probably the best place to go. They are well established and know what they are talking about when it comes to almost any camera sold today. I have bought most of my equipment from them for many years. About the only equipment they don't hold in any great numbers are the essentials for use in a darkroom.

If you decide to stay with manual focus or advance to auto-focus, only you can decide what suits you and your progress. For what it is worth I have almost totally abandoned digi and have focussed my work on film.

As for materials, buying at a camera shop may not be the best place to go. The quantities of film they will sell will be quite low, consequently the cost will be higher. There are a number of well established material suppliers spread around the country who do most of their business via mail order and for me have proved to be totally reliable. Pesonally can I suggest AG Photographic in Birmingham, Firstcall photgraphic in Taunton but closer to you in London is a company called Process Supplies, near Kings Cross Station.

If you want to progress later to having a darkroom, perhaps the best place I have found for enlargers is a company in Oxfordshire called Second Hand Darkroom Supplies. Whilst their prices are not the cheapest they have a superb range of equipment, both new and old. Again, any dealings I have had with them have been good and positive (They also sell film). Setting up a good working darkroom now, is vastly cheaper than when film was still King.

All these companies I have mentioned have excellent websites listing what they have and the prices.

Good luck in whatever direction you choose to go.

mr rusty · Sep 28, 2016

Just about any camera will give you decent images. I use everything from a 1913 Kodak through 1950's folders, Olymus OMs, Retinas, and a canon auto focus. The quality of the image does depend on the lens you are using, but not as much as you think - many of my favourite images were shot on a plain old 1950's triplet.

Most B&W films are fairly tolerant of exposure, so even "sunny 16" (or here in the UK more like "sunny 11") is often good enough. I use HP5 and Delta 100 & 400 mostly

Developing is just a recipe. Follow the temps/times and it works. In my experience, there is very little difference in real world between different developers. There are differences, but they are subtle.

Where the fun really begins is printing. Here you really do have loads of variables to play with - exposure, contrast, burning in, toning etc.

Remember there is nothing but air between lens and film, so the most any camera adds to the image is through ease of handling and metering. Don't think you have to spend much on a camera. I usually suggest Minolta X300 with a 1.7 50mm (or the 35-70mm zoom) as a starter - they are cheap as cheap. They are susceptible to failed capacitor in the shutter circuit which is a cheap fix, or you just buy another. Typically camera/lens £25-40 for a decent quality manual/auto SLR. You can spend more on a couple of Pizzas!

Leigh B · Sep 28, 2016

AgX said:
The Pentax K1000 is one of the few SLRs I just do not advise, because it just has no means to pre-view the DOF-effects of apertures.

In my 56+ years of shooting, I don't remember using the DoF preview even once, although most of my cameras had it.

- Leigh

mr rusty · Sep 28, 2016

I'll add, if you want B&W but don't want to develop yourself at first, I suggest using Ilford XP2 which is superb, and you can send the film to anyone who process normal colour film (whereas true B&W developing services are much rarer and more expensive). I use Photo Express in Hull for colour (and I used to send them XP2 before I started developing myself). Inexpensive and fast excellent service - you can get develop and scan to CD for £5/film. Bit more if you want prints as well. You could just get the scans first and if you wanted large prints of selected images send them to Ilford's printing service. A couple of good prints would not be much different to a whole film of little prints.

In my 56+ years of shooting, I don't remember using the DoF preview even once

+1

baachitraka · Sep 28, 2016

I may get an auto-exposure(aperture priority) and a 50mm lens. For example., OM-2n + Zuiko 50mm f/1.8.

Leigh B · Sep 28, 2016

Nessy said:
I have a very modest photography GCSE under my belt from a decade ago and I really want to get back into B+W photography, but I was wondering whether you could help me with guidance and your opinion on a camera I might buy.

Hi Nessy,

Basic premise... you will learn nothing from a modern digital camera, except perhaps elements of composition.
While that's of importance in any photographic effort, it's only a miniscule element in a huge universe of skills.

The Pentax K1000 has become a standard for teaching photography because the user has total control.
The quality (or lack thereof) is entirely the result of how the user interfaces with the equipment.

I have always been a Nikon user, so I tend toward that brand, having the advantage of a consistent set of lenses.
My personal favorite, that I still use is the F3. It's a high-quality professional camera with every imaginable bell and whistle.
It has an excellent metering system. Exposure control is either automatic aperture-priority or entirely manual.

They're quite attractively priced now, given that they've been around for a few decades.
In addition to a huge assortment of excellent lenses at reasonable prices, they have a large choice of accessories.

- Leigh

Newbie looking for advice

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