Newbie LF Question: Shutter for Barrel mounted 300mm Apo-Lanthar

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 21, 2018

I have picked up an old radioactive Voigtländer 300 mm Apo-Lanthar in as good as new condition from the bay together with some other lenses. All lenses are barrel mounted. I had no idea about the size of this beast, but it was cheap and I thought I might be able to mount it to a Rolleiflex SL66 as a fast tele lens.

Those of you who have seen this beast are laughing now, I know, but it did not seem so huge on the pics.

Obviously, this requires a 8x10 camera to be used properly, and the Intrepid 8x10 seems a cheap & good option for a beginner. My main problem is, I do not have a behind the lens shutter an I do not have the slightes idea which model will fit to the lens. Furthermore, this lens and the barrel are so huge, I doubt they will fit on a "normal" [I just know the Linhof ones for 4x5] aprox. 10x10 cms lens board, and given the weight of aprox. 2,5 kg, I am not sure a "normal" camera/lens board will support this kind of weight.

After having googled this problem without finding a solution, I have the following questions you maybe can help with:

1.) Which specific shutter will fit with this particular lens in a 8x10 camera?
2.) Where / How is this shutter mounted and how is it operated?
3.) Are there any particular lens-board for such a heavy lens, or will the 8x10 standard boards do?

shutterfinger · Aug 21, 2018

RauschenOderKorn said:
2.) Where / How is this shutter mounted and how is it operated?

Lens cap or your hat.
What is the diameter of the barrel at the threads?

B.S.Kumar · Aug 21, 2018

You should ask other Intrepid users whether the front standard can support such a heavy lens.

Kumar

Lachlan Young · Aug 21, 2018

Compound #IV shutter is what the 1964 catalogue specifies for the 300mm Apo-Lanthar - going by your description, I thought it might be a #5 shutter size! A minimum of a Sinar Norma or similar monorail setup is likely necessary to support it. The Sinar boards are 15x15cm & will have no problem with a lens of that size. I'd avoid field cameras with any lens that goes well over 2kg if you want to guarantee reasonable stability of the front standard.

Dan Fromm · Aug 21, 2018

It is recommended for whole plate, not 8x10. See: http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/voigtlander_2.html

Think about a Packard shutter behind the lensboard and about a Compound V mounted in front of the lens. Thats what I have on my 900/10 Apo Saphir.

To avoid stressing the front standard, put a support ("crutch") under the heavy lens.

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 22, 2018

There are several sources on the Internet on this lens, its use and a suitable shutter. What I had found before starting the thread is the following:

shutterfinger said:
What is the diameter of the barrel at the threads?

Lens dimensions:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/801626103-USE/voigtlander_normal_30cm_300mm_f_4_5.html

I have measured my lens after removing it from the barrel, and the dimensions coincide with the data of B&H. Especially the weight (it is a lot lighter without the Barrel) and the 90 mm outer thread at the back end for the Compound V shutter (around. 18 mm depth needed) according to this site:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?23904-Compound-shutter-sizes

The lens I have is from early 1956 according to the serial # (just above 4 Mio). If the lenses from 1964 fits in a Compound IV shutter, apparently there were some modification. Arne Cröll ( www.arnecroell.com/voigtlaender.pdf ) also points out, that shortly around 1964, the lens became non-radioactive.

Dan Fromm said:
It is recommended for whole plate, not 8x10.

Both B&H and Arne Cröll have published, that this lens is suitable for 8x10, deviating from the original Voigländer recommendation.

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 22, 2018

Dan Fromm said:
Think about a Packard shutter behind the lensboard

Are there different sizes, or are they all the same?
If it is behind the lens board, it must be inside the camera, right? How is it operated (I know by a pneumatic tube), how is the tube connected to get the "signal" inside? Does this require a special lens board?

I have never seen such a system assembled, that is why I am asking these behind-the-lens-shutter-for-dummies-questions (also in my original post).

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 22, 2018

Lachlan Young said:
The Sinar boards are 15x15cm & will have no problem with a lens of that size. I'd avoid field cameras with any lens that goes well over 2kg if you want to guarantee reasonable stability of the front standard.

OK, with a 15x15 lens board, this will fit nicely. The weight of the lens without the barrel is <1,5 kg, which opens up options.

shutterfinger · Aug 22, 2018

The barrel or Compound shutter are needed for cell spacing.
Packard shutters came in various sizes. In the day the pneumatic tube was run through the bellows close to the front standard in studio use. A hole can be made through the lens board for the pneumatic tube ans sealed with black silicone.
https://packardshutter.com/
While the lens will mount on the lens board easily the front standard will be strained with that much weight therefore a support under the front edge of the lens should be used. The front standard design used on the Intrepid has been around for years and has stability limits. I had a Burke and James Commercial View with this type of front standard, it was very susceptible to vibrations. The specifications for the 8x10 Intrepid say it supports lens up to Copal 3 shutter size which is smaller than a Compound 5.

RauschenOderKorn · Aug 24, 2018

shutterfinger said:
The barrel or Compound shutter are needed for cell spacing.
Packard shutters came in various sizes. In the day the pneumatic tube was run through the bellows close to the front standard in studio use. A hole can be made through the lens board for the pneumatic tube ans sealed with black silicone.
https://packardshutter.com/
While the lens will mount on the lens board easily the front standard will be strained with that much weight therefore a support under the front edge of the lens should be used. The front standard design used on the Intrepid has been around for years and has stability limits. I had a Burke and James Commercial View with this type of front standard, it was very susceptible to vibrations. The specifications for the 8x10 Intrepid say it supports lens up to Copal 3 shutter size which is smaller than a Compound 5.

Good stuff. There are also some independent videos on YouTube relating to the funtioning and operation / repair of Packard shutters, very interesting.

Thanks for spelling out again the stability limitation of the front standard. I was not able to find the Copal 3 maximum limitation on the Intrepid Homepage, there it only says "The intrepid is a "bring your own" lens camera and will take 180-600mm focal lengths." It is a pity that they do not hint for the limitations.

shutterfinger · Aug 24, 2018

Check https://www.skgrimes.com/products/new-copal-shutters/standardcopals for Copal shutter specs.

jim10219 · Aug 24, 2018

For a cheap shutter, you could build your own guillotine shutter. They fall at a constant acceleration, so to vary the "shutter speed", you vary the size of the slit. Another thing people will sometimes do is take a Graflex Speed Graphic and pull the bellows, front standard, rail, rear ground glass and back, and anything else in the way, and just use the focal plane shutter and the box in front of the lens. It's more expensive, but if you can find a Speed Graphic in bad shape, but with a good focal plane shutter, it may not be all that pricey, plus you'd have a bunch of speeds to choose from.

lobitar · Aug 25, 2018

I don't think there is any doubt the correct shutter would be a no 5 Compound. Only you have to ascertain that the flange-to-flange distance of your barrel-mount is the same for any shutter you may procure. I don't happen to know this distance as I never owned a 300 Apo-Lanthar, but it would no doubt be the same shutter as fits the 300 Heliar.

M. Axel Wikstrom · Oct 13, 2018

With several barrel lenses, get a Packard shutter with an opening as big as the largest rear lens element and mount it behind the lens board. You'll have to come up with a way to get air to the shutter, such as a fitting through the front standard (if there's room). If that's impossible, find a way to mount the shutter to the front of the lenses. Used Packard shutters are typically $60 to $100, and they're still available new. One may be able to use one shutter for several lenses. Two basic designs: bulb only, and bulb with "instantaneous" (about 1/25-sec).

dongxu · Jan 30, 2022

Hey, I wonder if you found a solution to your problem
If you are ever selling the lens, I might be interested.

Servus

Newbie LF Question: Shutter for Barrel mounted 300mm Apo-Lanthar

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