Newbie help - load 4x5 film - any tips for Foma 100

PerTulip · Jun 1, 2021

Hi!

I am about to start my first experiments with 4x5. I understand the process of loading film into holders (notch and emulsion side, watch for the slide cutouts,...).

What I have noticed: 4x5 film seems to have different packaging. This video describes very good what to expect "in the box" with Velvia. Ilford seems to have an additional bag:
I have ordered some cheap 4x5 film (Fomapan 100) for my first tries.

Can anyone describe what I will have to deal with once I open the box in the dark? A bag? No bag? A protector on top, then the film? A short description would be very helpful and possibly save some time. Thanks!

Mr Flibble · Jun 1, 2021

There is a dark plastic bag in side the box of Fomapan 100. The bag is folded so the contents are still protected from direct light and the bag is closed with a small piece of tape as I recall.
Inside the bag you'll find a piece of card stock folded in half and the stack of film sheets is sandwiched inside it. No other materials separate the film sheets from each other.

PerTulip · Jun 1, 2021

Thanks. That makes "feeling for things" in the changing bag easier. Open Box->Bag has Tape->Film inside->Retrieve sheet(s)->Load->Back into bag->Retape bag (safer than just box)->Put in box.

I am going to ask my lab if they have some spoiled 4x5s to "dry practice" loading.

Mr Flibble · Jun 1, 2021

I take it you're using the standard Graflex style film holders? Most are pretty easy to load. As long as your changing bag is spacious enough and the weather is not too warm and sweaty.
I've done it plenty of times, though usually no more than 2 or 3 holders in one go.

PerTulip · Jun 1, 2021

Mr Flibble said:
... Most are pretty easy to load. As long as your changing bag is spacious enough and the weather is not too warm and sweaty.
I've done it plenty of times, though usually no more than 2 or 3 holders in one go.

Toyo holders. And I can look at them thoroughly before going into the dark and get some "finger memory". My only worry was the packaging inside the film box.

And I was wise enough to purchase a large changing bag, so I have plenty of room.

bdial · Jun 1, 2021

Dust is a major enemy for sheet film. If you don't store your changing bag zipped up and protected, you may want to consider vacuuming it before using it for loading.
Likewise the holders need to be spotless and your hands clean and dry. Dust getting on the negative prior to exposure will leave a clear shadow on your negative which is challenging to retouch with analog methods, since it produces a black spot on a print.

As long as your fingers are dry, there is no problem in lightly touching the emulsion. Which you will likely need to do until you work out all the mechanics of handling the film and holders in the dark. Avoid it if you can, but don't worry about it if you do.
For navigating the materials by feel, most paper has a slightly different texture than film, it also doesn't have corner notches. Tales have been told of people loading interleaving paper into their holders instead of film.

FWIW, Kodak uses a sealed paper/foil bag inside a triple thickness box, for a new box, you could open the box up entirely in the light, as the inner packet was light tight. This made things a little easier since you didn't have to open the box in the dark. But I'm not sure I'd trust the black plastic bags some manufactures use to be entirely light tight. I haven't worked with Foma's packaging, so other folks may be able to confirm whether or not the inner bag is reliably light proof.
If you do open the box in the light, don't forget to put it into the changing bag before you start.

After loading, if you find you have a dark slide inserted backwards (that is, with exposed indicator facing out), I find it's easier to put it in the camera (with shutter closed) to reverse it, rather than doing it in the dark.

MattiS · Jun 1, 2021

Do yourself a favour and take a sheet of film out of the box (in the changing bag, of course) and practise the loading process and this "notch and emulsion thing"at daylight first. You won´t regret it. When you are used to it, practise in the changing bag.

MattKing · Jun 1, 2021

It helps to put something like an open cardboard box or frame inside the changing bag, in order to keep the bag away from your hands.
Be cautious when doing so in order to protect the bag's lining.

BrianShaw · Jun 1, 2021

LOL... three times now folks have mentioned moisture in the changing bag. Here’s mention #4. Just last week I was fumbling with 120 film and it wasn’t going smoothly... started sweating... on both hands and face. Like a fool, I threw out the film, took a break, and moved on to the next roll. Guess what happened...

Suggest you do the homework you are doing, get comfortable with the knowledge, tools, and techniques... then give it a go. But if anxiety arises... step away before tour hands start sweating!

PerTulip · Jun 1, 2021

Thanks for all the suggestions! I have handled many 135ies and 120ies in the changing bag, so I am aware of sweat, dust, etc.

I appreciate the advice on practicing loading in the light, that‘s why I want to ask my lab for some spoiled 4x5. If not….I‘ll just sacrifice one. That‘s why I ordered the cheapest available film.

BrianShaw · Jun 1, 2021

You’ll quickly learn that it really isn’t a big deal. Good luck!

urnem57 · Jun 1, 2021

There are large changing bags made for motion picture use. I find them much easier than the cramped little ones. Easier to fit a cardboard box in as well.

Roseha · Jun 1, 2021

I just loaded 4x5 for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I was so convinced it would be a nightmare but I was able to put 4 sheets of Ilford Ortho Plus in the 2 holders by going really slowly and feeling for the notch (which was tiny) and feeling that the dark slide was going in properly at the bottom. I also used the biggest changing bag I could buy.
To my surprise they all came out. I did have a local lab develop them.
I used them in a pinhole camera, just starting out but frankly if I can get good pinhole photos that's fine for the moment.
You can do it, good luck.

Alex Benjamin · Jun 1, 2021

urnem57 said:
There are large changing bags made for motion picture use. I find them much easier than the cramped little ones. Easier to fit a cardboard box in as well.

Getting into 4x5 is the reason I went from changing bag to changing tent. Well worth it.

grat · Jun 1, 2021

I like the tent also, although the PhotoFlex takes some getting used to. The arm holes are a bit widely spaced, and it can be irritating chasing the tent down if you don't have enough weight inside.

I also use a glove on my right hand-- I use the (bare) left to find the notch in the film, and the tabs in the holders (and to keep the flippy bit flipped), and my right hand to slide the negative into the holder-- no sweat. Literally.

Some companies put a box inside the first box-- so you take the lid off, there's another box, and you take that off, and there's the envelope. Foma (well, Arista EDU) is not one of those companies. You take the top of the box off, there's the bag. I suggest cutting the sticky tape on the bag-- makes it more difficult to reseal the bag (although there's plenty of overlap), but it also makes it less likely that the tape winds up grabbing a chunk of emulsion off your negative. Happened to a friend of mine.

gone · Jun 1, 2021

I like having a whole bathroom. I taped over it's one window, and take a plastic lawn chair and a folding, stand up TV tray in there when I need to load my dev tank. Then a rolled up towel is placed at the bottom of the door and a blanket is hung over it all to cover light leaks at the edges.

Foma 100 may be cheap, but it's a great film! I usually shoot it at 50, and it likes lots of developers. D76, Rodinal, etc. You'll have it dialed in easily. It looks great in Mic-X too.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 1, 2021

Everything has been covered. One think I do is wash my hands with alcohol before I handle film. Helps a lot.

Paul Howell · Jun 1, 2021

Foma sheet film has a very soft emulsion, practicing with spoiled film or a sacrifice sheet will be very helpful in learning how to load and load your film holders. Are you going to develop your Foma or have a lab develop, either way be sure and read the Foma data sheet and figure out the best ISO for yours or the labs developer. If you can make dark a bathroom that the approach I would take. Another thought, in past when I worked part time in a lab folks would bring us film and hangers which we would load for them, then they would bring back the exposed film in the holders which we would swap out for new film and developed the exposed film. Ask your lab.

John Earley · Jun 1, 2021

Put a number on the box lid with the number of sheets removed. Makes it easier to keep track of what remains.

grat · Jun 1, 2021

Yeah, I use the old fashioned "||||" with a diagonal for the 5th.

Oh-- Not just for Foma, but because I use (a) glove, I can handle the film a bit more than usual, so I find the notch, orient the film correctly, and slightly flex the film it down the middle-- slide one edge under one tab, and then let the film "pop" under the other tab, then once I'm sure it's under both tabs, I use my thumb to slide the film the rest of the way into the holder. Which, not by coincidence, is also how I load grafmatic septums and the holders in my SP-445.

removed account4 · Jun 1, 2021

make sure your dark slide is leaving enough room on your open film holder
people sometimes only open the film holder a crack it's nearly impossible to load film in a film holder that
isn't open enough .. also after you slide it in and push it all the way up, take your thumb and lift the bottom of the film
and bow the film to make sure its under the rails sometimes only one side ( or no sides ) go under the rail and it seems the film is loaded
but .. when you remove the dark slide when the film is comfortably on the back of the camera. the film pops out of the film holder into the back of the camera
.. always fun '
if your dark bag doesn't have enough room to pull up your dark slide enough. find a pitch black room and load it there and not in a dark bag... I hate loading anything in dark bags.
good luck !
John

nerologic · Jun 1, 2021

I came at things bass ackwards and shot wetplates before I shot sheet film…. So I load in the big cozy darkbox, though I do load in a bag when traveling. But yeah, you’re using cheap film just sacrifice one and get comfy. It’s easier than loading roll film on a reel if you ask me. Enjoy it either way and don’t feel too bad about making dumb mistakes. Foma is only a buck a sheet or so. Just don’t drop any lenses, that’s where you make the real expensive mistakes.

PerTulip · Jun 2, 2021

Roseha said:
..... I was so convinced it would be a nightmare but I was able to put 4 sheets of Ilford Ortho Plus in the 2 holders by going really slowly and feeling for the notch (which was tiny) and feeling that the dark slide was going in properly at the bottom. I also used the biggest changing bag I could buy.....

That reminds me of spooling the first 135 films in the bag. It took a while but wasn't the nightmare I thought it could be. Since I already spooled tons of 135 and 120 I am used to "working blind". With a patient enough approach, loading the first 4x5 will work.

Alex Benjamin said:
Getting into 4x5 is the reason I went from changing bag to changing tent. Well worth it.

I was researching wet plates. And a changing tent would be a must (for outdoor) use. Any recommendations?

Paul Howell said:
... Are you going to develop your Foma or have a lab develop, either way be sure and read the Foma data sheet and figure out the best ISO for yours or the labs developer. ....

I will develop them myself. I have researched the "taco method" and will use that for my first experiments. I ordered Foma because it was the cheapest and I am sure I will waste enough film trying things out. Then I will use the films I like in other formats (Delta 100, HP5,...).

Alex Benjamin · Jun 2, 2021

PerTulip said:
I was researching wet plates. And a changing tent would be a must (for outdoor) use. Any recommendations?

I got the Harrison Original Tent. Works wonderfully. The smaller "pup" tent would probably have been enough (would have fitted open in the back of the car more easily when traveling), but I don't regret buying the Original.

M Carter · Jun 11, 2021

In my E6 studio days, myself and everyone I knew would open the box in the dark, take the film from whatever foil pouch or bag it was in, and just stick it in the inner box. The double-lid setup was always fine, and I do that to this day so as not to be fumbling with envelopes or mini-bags in the dark.

Now that I have a nice crusty-old-man COVID beard, I usually wear a face mask when loading sheets. Human beings are simply dust-generating machines.

Newbie help - load 4x5 film - any tips for Foma 100

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