Newbie DIY C-41 Recipe/Formula/Process

RPC · Mar 20, 2021

Stored in full, glass, tightly sealed bottles the developer should last many months. The preservatives sodium sulfite and hydroxylamine sulfate offer good oxidation protection in C-41 developers.

I can't exactly say as to capacity, but I wouldn't hesitate to re-use it once, after that you would probably need to increase the development time.

Dave Faulkner · Jul 14, 2021

For kits (e.g., Tetanol) you typically can get 6 - 9 rolls per half liter working solution. I doubt these formulas have as much capacity as they aren't cutting edge chemistry (look at the color formula patents of the 1990s -- you can't reproduce that chemistry with ArtCraft).

You also need to increase times for all steps in the process for each roll you process with a solution. I add 0.125 mins/roll for the developer making the range from 3.5 to 4.5 mins. Some advocate a nonlinear compensation, such as adding 8% of the last time for each roll. You can experiment without wrecking your film as a few seconds either way seems not to matter in C-41 -- actually many push their film just like BW by considerably increasing the development time. Increase time for other steps by 15-30s per roll. For example, for a Rapid Fixer start at 3:00 for roll 1, 3:15 for roll 2, etc. For bleach start at 6:00 for roll 1, 6:30 for roll 2, etc. These times are less critical, as they are run-to-completion type processes. Experimentation is needed especially with non-commercial formulas, but you should be getting 4 - 8 rolls/0.5L I would guess.

Hashic Bawa · Jul 31, 2021

Dave Faulkner said:
For kits (e.g., Tetanol) you typically can get 6 - 9 rolls per half liter working solution. I doubt these formulas have as much capacity as they aren't cutting edge chemistry (look at the color formula patents of the 1990s -- you can't reproduce that chemistry with ArtCraft).

You also need to increase times for all steps in the process for each roll you process with a solution. I add 0.125 mins/roll for the developer making the range from 3.5 to 4.5 mins. Some advocate a nonlinear compensation, such as adding 8% of the last time for each roll. You can experiment without wrecking your film as a few seconds either way seems not to matter in C-41 -- actually many push their film just like BW by considerably increasing the development time. Increase time for other steps by 15-30s per roll. For example, for a Rapid Fixer start at 3:00 for roll 1, 3:15 for roll 2, etc. For bleach start at 6:00 for roll 1, 6:30 for roll 2, etc. These times are less critical, as they are run-to-completion type processes. Experimentation is needed especially with non-commercial formulas, but you should be getting 4 - 8 rolls/0.5L I would guess.

This c41 recipe seems interesting up until now I was using a local c41 chemistry kit from a company called Elfford PVT. which is been sold as a 40L kit for around 150$ which when we factor in cost/L it's somewhere around under 5$ but as there's high demand in c41 chemistry, they started to double the cost to around 350-400$ for the same kit so it would be wonderful if I could.make this recipe working and get consistent results with this DIY c41 recipe

Hashic Bawa · Jul 31, 2021

Hashic Bawa said:
This c41 recipe seems interesting up until now I was using a local c41 chemistry kit from a company called Elfford PVT. which is been sold as a 40L kit for around 150$ which when we factor in cost/L it's somewhere around under 5$ but as there's high demand in c41 chemistry, they started to double the cost to around 350-400$ for the same kit so it would be wonderful if I could.make this recipe working and get consistent results with this DIY c41 recipe

Sourcing the CD4 here in india is really hard and its more than 200-250$ to buy for 100mg which is the minimum quantity labs selles these for in the market,
Sometime ago saw a homemade c41 recipe which uses PPD or normal Hair die and the results where good enough but not lab quality if there's any updated recipe which involves alternative to cd4 it wluld be helpful!

kfed1984 · Jul 5, 2023

RPC said:
Stored in full, glass, tightly sealed bottles the developer should last many months. The preservatives sodium sulfite and hydroxylamine sulfate offer good oxidation protection in C-41 developers.

Does RA-4 chemistry in diluted form last longer than C-41?

ludwik · Sep 20, 2023

I know its an old topic.
Where I live I cant source cd-4 or its very expensive. I can get CD-3 cheap. Hows CD-3 to CD-4? can I use one instead of another or its totally different and needs for different recipe?

koraks · Sep 20, 2023

ludwik said:
Where I live I cant source cd-4 or its very expensive.

Check eBay. Several sellers offer it and there are some who charge rather reasonable prices.

ludwik said:
Hows CD-3 to CD-4?

Different. They will form different dye molecules, and although of roughly the same hue, the chemical stability of these dyes is uncertain. They are different in terms of activity, so an equal weight replacement of one for the other will not work as a real C41 developer. You may/will run into color crossover issues that you may or may not find bothersome.

Anything can be done, but given the good availability of both CD4 and commercially ready-made C41 developers, I don't see the point in it.

It's a bit like processing your C41 film in a bodged up, modified RA4 developer. Kind of unpredictable, but you'll get colors alright.

ludwik · Sep 20, 2023

ok. so need to find cd4.

kfed1984 · Sep 20, 2023

ludwik said:
ok. so need to find cd4.

Alibaba has it, also artcraftchemicals

koraks · Sep 20, 2023

kfed1984 said:
Alibaba has it, also artcraftchemicals

Alibaba is not a seller, and unless you're in the market for at least a kilogram, it's not even worth trying. ArtCraft is nice if you live in the US but relatively expensive and cumbersome if you're in Ireland.

On eBay there are also sellers in mainland Europe, which makes it more attractive for those within the EU - assuming Ireland does not mean Northern Ireland in this particular case.

ludwik · Sep 20, 2023

"Normal" Ireland...
hard to get anything in here... anyway. I will find something. (cd3 I found was about 30 cents per 1g - thats why I asked)

Rudeofus · Sep 20, 2023

ludwik said:
"Normal" Ireland...
hard to get anything in here... anyway. I will find something. (cd3 I found was about 30 cents per 1g - thats why I asked)

"Normal Ireland" is in the EU, and you should be able to order stuff from Fototechnik Suvatlar in Germany, or you ask Bellinifoto for a quote.

mtjade2007 · Sep 21, 2023

Sajmonus00 said:
Hello. I want to start mixing my own c41 developer using this formula. How much films can i process in 1/2 litre developer? How long can I keep solution? (Stored in full bottle, no oxygen, no light) Thanks

When a developer is used once oxygen will be dissolved into the water of the developer. So even if it is stored in a tight dark oxygen free container the developer still will go bad although it will live longer. I would use it within a few days no longer than a week. I am talking about the color developer in general.

Rudeofus · Sep 22, 2023

Oxygen uptake is not only dependent on agitation. There are different bottle materials with wildly different permeability for Oxygen, and there is also Fenton reaction affecting reaction with Oxygen. Adrian's formula contains no strong sequestrant, so its shelf life will be much shorter than what we're used from commercial C-41 kits or PE's C-41 formula.

emkei · Oct 8, 2023

Adrian Bacon said:
As part of my quest to DIY C-41, I've put together a shopping list that I intend to try out and thought I'd share it with the group for input before I pull the trigger and buy (would hate to buy the wrong thing). Since I'm a hybrid shooter, my goal is get something that will be scannable/digitizable more than printable via analog means.

A couple of things to note: I'm not a professional chemist, but I'm very technically inclined. I realize that I'm new at DIY C-41 and probably don't know what I don't know, so please just point me the right direction if I'm going the wrong way about something and heading for disaster. I'm not going to bite.

With that:

# C-41 Recipe/Formula (updated 2016-10-19, thanks RPC & sfaber17 for input!)

- C-41 Developer:
1. 700ml distilled water
2. 34.0g Potassium Carbonate (Artcraft Part #1250, $17.00)
3. 3.5g Sodium Sulfite (Artcraft Part #1416, $16.50)
4. 1.5g Potassium Bromide (Artcraft Part #1420, $12.25)
5. 2.0g Hydroxylamine Sulfate (Artcraft Part #1716, $16.00)
6. 2.0mg Potassium Iodide (note milligrams, not grams) (Artcraft Part #1290, $15.75)
7. 5.0g CD-4 (Artcraft Part #1095, $37.50)
8. Add distilled water to bring it to 1000ml.
9. Test ph, add Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) to bring ph down to 10.1, likely 1-3g. must experiment.

- C-41 Stop Bath:
1. 700ml distilled water
2. 10ml Glacial Acetic Acid (Artcraft Part #1689, $10.59)
3. Sodium Sulfite (Artcraft Part #1416, $16.50, purchased as part of developer above)
4. add distilled water to make 1000ml

- C-41 Bleach:
1. 700ml water
2. 80.0g Potassium Ferricyanide (Artcraft Part #1280, $18.00)
3. 20.0g Potassium Bromide (Artcraft Part #1420, $12.25, purchased as part of developer above)
4. Add water to make 1000ml

- C-41 Fixer:
1. 700ml water
2. 160ml Ammonium Thiosulfate, 60% (Artcraft Part #1050, $9.95)
3. 1.0g EDTA Disodium (Artcraft Part #1130, $16.00)
4. 11.0g Sodium Metabisulfite (Artcraft Part #1375, $6.25)
5. 2.5g Sodium Hydroxide (Artcraft Part #1759, $9.00)
6. Add water to make 1000ml.
7. Test ph, add Acetic Acid or Sodium Bicarbonate to get ph to 6.5

- C-41 Stabilizer: (per PE on APUG, definitive word on color stabs forum thread)
1. Photoflow 200 mixed per directions on bottle to make 1000ml.
2. 10 ml Formalin 37%

# Process (100F/38C)

1. 01:00 Pre-wet/temper
2. 03:15 Developer
3. 00:45 Stop Bath
4. 04:00 Rinse (8x 00:30)
5. 03:00 Bleach
6. 03:00 Rinse (6x 00:30)
7. 06:30 Fixer
8. 06:30 Wash (8x 00:30)
9. 01:00 Stabilizer

i want to ask about amount of sodium sulfite in stop bath.. thank you

koraks · Oct 8, 2023

emkei said:
i want to ask about amount of sodium sulfite in stop bath.. thank you

Welcome to Photrio!
Sulfite in a C41 stop bath is optional. I always just leave it out.

Anon Ymous · Oct 8, 2023

koraks said:
Welcome to Photrio!
Sulfite in a C41 stop bath is optional. I always just leave it out.

AFAIK, it's useful if you use a ferricyanide bleach, but unnecessary in any other case.

RPC · Oct 8, 2023

emkei said:
i want to ask about amount of sodium sulfite in stop bath.. thank you

See post #2

emkei · Nov 15, 2023

i have a question about Ammonium Thiosulfate:

i have powdered 96% Ammonium Thiosulfate...
how can i mix it to 160ml 60% Ammonium Thiosulfate?

thanks for your help

koraks · Nov 15, 2023

emkei said:
i have powdered 96% Ammonium Thiosulfate...
how can i mix it to 160ml 60% Ammonium Thiosulfate?

60% of 160ml = 96. Since the 60% is likely w/v (weight/volume), this would be 96g of dry ammonium thiosulfate. Since your thiosulfate is apparently only 96% pure (I wonder what the rest is), you'd technically have to make up for the remaining 4%. 96 / 0.96 = 100, so take 100g of your 96% pure ammonium thiosulfate and add it to e.g. 75ml to 100ml of warm water. Dissolve the thiosulfate entirely and then add water until the total volume is 160ml.

The weights aren't very critical in an application like this. You can easily err up to 10% and probably never even notice it.

Note that 'dry' ammonium thiosulfate tends to break down into (among other things) sulfur. When making a solution out of ammonium thiosulfate, in my experience it requires filtration to remove insoluble solids that might cling to the emulsion of your film and/or react with the silver halide in the emulsion.

emkei · Nov 15, 2023

koraks said:
60% of 160ml = 96. Since the 60% is likely w/v (weight/volume), this would be 96g of dry ammonium thiosulfate. Since your thiosulfate is apparently only 96% pure (I wonder what the rest is), you'd technically have to make up for the remaining 4%. 96 / 0.96 = 100, so take 100g of your 96% pure ammonium thiosulfate and add it to e.g. 75ml to 100ml of warm water. Dissolve the thiosulfate entirely and then add water until the total volume is 160ml.

The weights aren't very critical in an application like this. You can easily err up to 10% and probably never even notice it.

Note that 'dry' ammonium thiosulfate tends to break down into (among other things) sulfur. When making a solution out of ammonium thiosulfate, in my experience it requires filtration to remove insoluble solids that might cling to the emulsion of your film and/or react with the silver halide in the emulsion.

thank you very much for the quick reply

koraks · Nov 15, 2023

You're welcome, and good luck with your chemistry experiments!

emkei · Nov 26, 2023

I also want to ask how to extend the processing time in the developer. like 2% per film? and what about bleach and fixer?
thank you

Rudeofus · Nov 27, 2023

koraks said:
Since the 60% is likely w/v (weight/volume),

Ammonium Thiosulfate solution is typically sold as 60% w/w solution. You can make 1 kg of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution by mixing 625g (= 600g / 0.96) of your dry powder with 375g water to make 1kg of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60 solution. With a density of 1.325 kg/l this kg will equal 0.75 liters. To make a full liter of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution, you'd have to mix 828g of your powder into half a liter of water.

PS: If the 4% "other stuff" in your powder are not that soluble, you may end up with a milky liquid. It doesn't matter for all practical purposes.

Don_ih · Nov 27, 2023

Rudeofus said:
Ammonium Thiosulfate solution is typically sold as 60% w/w solution. You can make 1 kg of Ammonium Thiosulfate 60% solution by mixing 625g (= 600g / 0.96) of your dry powder with 375g water

So 60% is a sensible solution, since that is almost the saturation level (173g/100ml).

It would be helpful if it was always noted which it was - weight/volume or weight/weight or volume/volume. Normally, in the various things we mix up to make these formulas, we have convenient w/v solutions of stuff like phenidone, benzotriazole, potassium bromide.

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