Newbie-Beseler 23CII enlarger question

[Greg Heath]

Hi, I'm new to APUG.

I've been taking pictures with my Zeroimage 6x9 pinhole camera and I have loads of film to start printing. I am new to all of this, and need some advice.

I found a Beseler 23C locally here in Southeast WI, but down in Illinois found
a 23CII color head enlarger with lots of accessories that might be a better deal.

Will the 23CII color head work for printing B&W 6x9 ?
I included a picture.

both come with a 50mm lens and I know I will need something closer to 150mm.

I also found a Beseler 45mxt for less than $50.

Any recomendations ?

Greg
Racine, WI

 

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, I would go with the Beseler 45MXT. It would have more even coverage, and would have better ability to be aligned properly. For 6x9, you would usually use a 105mm lens.

Jon

 

[Greg Heath]

Thanks... for the advice..


Greg

 

[Konical]

Good Morning, Greg,

Assuming that the Beseler 45 is in good shape, go for it before someone else does!

Konical

 

[panastasia]

Greg,
The 23CII color head will work fine for B&W 6x9. The diffused light and halogen bulb makes for easy printing. The color filters are also useful for printing on VC paper. The 50mm lens will just cover 6x6cm format, but you will do better with a 105mm for 6x9 (the longer lens will limit the degree of enlargement to 11x14 unless you rotate the head 90°, or extend the column).

Paul

 

[fschifano]

I use an Omega color head for B&W variable contrast work, and I can tell you that once you've figured out the filtration and filter factors it beats the pants off swapping filters in and out. You will need a longer lens than 50 mm. That one is good for full frame 35mm and smaller negatives. It will not "just cover" 6x6 cm. I've tried it and it doesn't work. At best, you can expect to see a lot of image degradation near the edges and some vignetting. For 6x9, you'll need something around a 105 or longer lens. Appropriate negative carriers, either store bought or home made, are required.

 

[Greg Heath]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I was cruising craigslist and ebay this past week and have been a little overwhelmed. I have had the Zeroimage 6x9 camera for the past year or so and always took the film in to be processed.
The local photo shop that I was using closed. So I sort of gave up, plus I have been raising my 3 year old son..so my time was limited.

Digging the stuff out of a box again last week, I remembered that I had purchased reels/container and all the developing supplies. So just for fun I took a couple rolls of film..and not sure how to proceed I found JBrunner's site on YouTube.
I watched his free instructional videos and thought I would give it a go.

Taking the paper off of the 120 film in the dark bag, separating it and getting it on the plastic reel took 55 minutes.. (1st time..) But I don't give up easy...
I can now do it in about 2 minutes in the bag.. thank heavens.
Anyway I developed my first black and white roll last weekend, and had a lot of fun. It was like "Magic" when I took the top off of the container, and I could see an image !
Now I'm trying to go the next step and make a positive print. Thanks for your help.

 

[fotch]

You may want both. If the 23c goes for the $50, then the lens and accessories are well worth it. The 45M are really nice enlargers, would be my preference. Two is better than one, if you have the room.

Enlargers can be had for next to nothing locally if you take your time. Hey, I am from the South Western Racine area so PM for what you need. I have lots of new old stock from a closed camera store. I may have a free 8 ft sink if interested. Or if I can be of help.

Good Luck.
Jim

 

[ChuckP]

How large are the Zeroimage negatives? The 23c carrier is 82mm (well mine is). If your negs are a true 90mm you will be better off using a larger 45 model. Use a glass 4x5 carrier and a mask.

 

[Greg Heath]

more questions

The Negatives for the ZeroImage 6x9 are exactly 90mm. I only shot one roll of the 6X9, to see how they would turn out. Thanks for the heads up on the carrier size.

The 6x9 Zeroimage camera is internally adjustable for 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7,6x9. I have it set up for 6x6 now. http://www.zeroimage.com/web2003/EntryPage/entryFrameset.htm

I went to see the Beseler 23CII today and it came home with me.

One of the knobs is cracked, and its missing the enlarging lens and lens plate I think. No owners manual, and it had a ton of dust on it. I cleaned that up in about 3 hours, by almost completely disassembling the unit. I cleaned the glass with 91% alcohol and then reinstalled. I will install a new power cord as the other one is in not too good of shape.

Can anyone give me part numbers for the knob & lens plate? I don't want to wait an entire week for the manual to show up and then another 10 days for the parts.

I still do intend to purchase the 45MXT. How can you go wrong with that for $30 The buyer has not responded yet. There is another one in Springfield, IL... but it's too far and they won't ship it.. it's on ebay. Looks nice.

Thanks

Greg

 

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, the lensboard is a 4x4 board to fit the 23 or 45 series beselers. You would need to get one with a hole to fit your lens, most commonly 39mm. You can probably get a used one from some place like mpex.com. If new, freestylephoto.biz has a generic 39mm 4x4 called a Delta Bes-board for not much $$. Don't need to buy the manual because it is available online via pdf file:http://www.darkroompro.com/pdf/enlargers/beseler_23c2xl.pdf
By the way the 45 and 23 take the same size lensboard, but different neg carriers. Good luck.

Jon

Oh, about the "knob": I think your enlarger may have been put together wrong (or maybe I had a different model)? Normally, there is "negative stage lever" on the left side with that cam shown in your picture, and a lockring on the right side of the shaft. When you push on the lever it is supposed to move the cam, which lifts open the negative stage so you can put a neg holder in.

 

[fotch]

I looked at mine and its not a knob but a cam, and is on the right side. When you operate the lever, it opens for inserting the negative holder, as mentioned by Jon. Unless you have a crack in yours, you should be good to go.

 

[Greg Heath]

thanks

thanks for the links! and thanks for the Manual. Wow this site is GREAT !

The cam on the side of the machine (right side if you are facing towards the machine) is cracked. The one on the left connected to the other side via the lever is OK, so when I lift the arm, only the left side goes up. The one on the right popped off in transport and I pressed it back on, but will have to adjust it properly for the shaft. It is cracked through though.


Greg

 

[Greg Heath]

lensboards-39mm threaded vs. non threaded

what's the difference between Beseler 39mm threaded vs. nonthreaded lensboards for a 23CII ?

 

[MattKing]

what's the difference between Beseler 39mm threaded vs. nonthreaded lensboards for a 23CII ?

If you have a threaded lensboard, you don't need a retaining ring.

I expect that a threaded lensboard would be likely to be much more expensive then a non-threaded lensboard, plus a retainer ring.

All my (Beseler 67) lensboards are unthreaded. I have a whole bunch of retaining rings, and each of them were very inexpensive.

Matt

 

[Dennis S]

I just got my beseler 23C II a couple of wks ago and I don't think that there is a threaded lens board, Its just the jam nut that threads onto the lens itself.

 

[Dennis S]

Yah what Matt said.

 

[Greg Heath]

one of my problems solved

Newbie...that's me..!

I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I don't want to stay one forever.

I can't tell you (but i am) how much I appreciate the time people are taking to help me,with the questions I have. The little things you probably take for granted. The pieces of the puzzle that I am slowly putting down on the canvas, wondering how it will all come about. It's like learning a new airplane, or sailing an unfamiliar boat. Learning the phraseology to feel comfortable. The nuances that you take for granted, I can learn from.
Making mistakes to learn. There is no other way. I will succeed.

I just purchased a 4x4 inch 39mm threaded lens-plate with a 75mm lens for the 23CII on Ebay about 30 minutes ago for $20.30, for the 6x6cm film I'm shooting.
Now to get a negative holder, replace the cracked cam, and put together a dark room.

 

[panastasia]

...You will need a longer lens than 50 mm. That one is good for full frame 35mm and smaller negatives. It will not "just cover" 6x6 cm. I've tried it and it doesn't work. At best, you can expect to see a lot of image degradation near the edges and some vignetting.... .

I suppose it depends on what lens you have. I found that my old EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 will just cover the 6x6 format with no noticeable vignetting. There is some expected light fall-off at the corners that requires some extra exposure, like most other enlarging lenses, but sharp corner to corner. I wasn't really making a recommendation to use the 50mm on a regular basis for 6x6, only what is possible in a pinch if it's the only lens available. It would make some interesting pinhole photos.

Also, longer lenses (100mm and longer) require a lens board with an extension - B&H sells them.

 

[Greg Heath]

<Also, longer lenses (100mm and longer) require a lens board with an extension>

I was not aware of that...thank you.

 

[ChuckP]

Also some info at:http://www.oresteen.com/bess23c.htm

I use a flat 8023 board with my 105 with no problems.

 

[konakoa]

You don't need a lens board extension with the 23C's. I use a 100mm lens all the time on my 23C III with no problems.

Greg, I've got a spare negative stage cam I can send you free. It's left over from some conversions I made to my 23C II. PM me if you're interested.

 

[MattKing]

What Danny said.

You might need an extension if you were trying to put a 135mm lens or longer on the enlarger (I need one for a 135mm lens on my Beseler 67C).

Matt

 

[Greg Heath]

Danny,

I just wanted to say thank you for sending me the Negative Cam part from your collection. Thank you for being so kind to me. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Greg

 

[Greg Heath]

I was just lucky to find a Beseler 45MC here in Appleton,Wisconsin plus all the lenses, trays, Photography book series from 1952, Filters-all original, negative carriers, Tongs and basically the whole studio for the pick-up price of $30.
No misprint. Thirty Dollars. I was so shocked I gave him $60. Well worth it. Now in less than 2 weeks because of the good fortune and the generosity of others like Danny Spence and John Toennessen, I have both enlargers, and will be able to build a darkroom. I am truly excited and I am looking forward to getting started. A gracious thank you for being so kind, and helping me to get started. I will return the favor.

Greg