New55 Monobath Developer

Ektagraphic · Mar 21, 2015

Hi Guys-

I haven't seen any mention of New55's new Monobath developer that they are offing in their web-store over here on APUG, so I thought I would post. I have never tried a monobath, and didn't really know of the idea until recently, so I have become interested. I will certainly have to give it a try at some point in the future. As many of us probably are, I am anxious to try out some of the New55 film. With all of the doom and gloom that has been floating around other manufacturers, I am glad to see New55 being one to bring new products for us all to enjoy.

Dead Link Removed

Best,

Pat

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 21, 2015

You forgot to mention something: it is only available in the US.

removed account4 · Mar 21, 2015

hi ricardo

it is based on dan qualls formula
which is listed here
http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/01/donal-qualls-successful-monobath.html
and the ingredients are available pretty much wherever you might be able to buy hc110

have fun!
john

Gerald C Koch · Mar 21, 2015

Before anyone buys a monobath they should get a copy of Grant Haist's book The Monobath Manual. Used copies are available at Anazon the last time I looked. Haist discusses the advantages and disadvantages of this type of developer. The basic concept is appealing but they are not for everyone.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 21, 2015

And an alternative point of view might be that before deciding against buying a New55 monobath consider that the main reason for doing so is to assist the New55 project in reaching completion. They have made amazing progress, but are still short of funds to cross the finish line. Making this monobath available for sale helps in several tangible ways.

First and foremost, it's a source of much needed post-KS funding to hopefully carry through to commercial product availability.

Second, it allows an opportunity to jumpstart their online direct sales infrastructure, so that when commercial product availability comes we can all easily get hands on the products.

And third, it makes available right now something interesting to play with in your darkroom while you wait. Although no doubt useful, pre-reading Grant Haist is not a prerequisite to giving this product a playful try.

Ken

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 21, 2015

Hi John

Thanks!
Unfortunately I don't buy anything that has a Koda in its name.

removed account4 · Mar 21, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Hi John

Thanks!
Unfortunately I don't buy anything that has a Koda in its name.

hi ricardo -

hmmm
maybe there is a concentrate of another company or hand mixed
that will do the same thing. i have never used 110 but i am sure
another company must have something similar, or maybe you can substitute
( through experimentation ) ID11 since 110 was supposed to be a replacement
for 76 .. and ID11 is very similar to 76

just thinking aloud since they won't export the monobath and i am guessing
the rest of the ingredients are available to you in your neck of the woods ...
or maybe .. it isn't in the stars ?

best of luck !
john

Gerald C Koch · Mar 21, 2015

The problem with monobaths is that they just don't work very well. A major problem has been that they need to be tailored for a specific film. If you look in Haist's book you will see that his monobath MM-1 can be modified slightly for more than one film by the addition of an acidic or alkaline solution. Another severe hurdle to their use is that traditinalluy they causes excessive softening of the emulsion. In some cases the emulsion just slide off the film base.

Monobaths did find a niche in certain specialized applications such as instant film like Polaroid. But they were never able to replace conventional develop and fix methods.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 21, 2015

New55 is not marketing this product primarily to replace develop and fix methods...

Ken

Gerald C Koch · Mar 22, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
New55 is not marketing this product primarily to replace develop and fix methods...

Ken

The first use of a monobath was reported in the BJ of 1859. Since then numerous formulas have been proposed. Some have even become commercial products. None of them were able to satisfactorily overcome several severe problems. Among these are

o A higher than normal level of fog.
o Softening of the emulsion.
o Film specificity.
o Loss of film speed.
o Sludging of the bath from non-image silver.

When Haist's book first came out I tried a couple of the formulas. The best results were with his MM-1 formula. I am interested in seeing if this new product has succeeded where others have failed.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 22, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I am interested in seeing if this new product has succeeded where others have failed.

Does this mean you will be buying a 32-ounce bottle for testing purposes? Since it sounds like you have had past experience with these formulae I would be interested to hear an opinion.

I may try it myself, just for curiosity and grins.

Ken

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 22, 2015

I'd like to try it, but the website says "Continental US Only" (or words to that effect), so there may be a hazmat issue in getting some to Hawai'i.

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 22, 2015

best of luck !
john

Thanks!
I'm lazy and I like simple solutions.
That's why I'm curious about monobath.

vdonovan · Mar 22, 2015

New55 has said that another fundraising product will be a Panatomic-X type film. Note that the name of this new film is revealed in the website description of the monobath developer: "New55 Atomic-X". Which is a great name for a film, anyway.

cmacd123 · Mar 23, 2015

the concept is always intriguing. Back in the 60s the local camera store had a tiny clear plastic film Tank from Japan. you would stic in the entire 20 exposure cassette and add the little bottle of monobath and wian and rewind the film for some number of minutes, then take the film out or the now ruined cassette, wash it and hang it up to dry. Item was promoted as a way to check that your camera was still working when you were travelling. using a 20 exposure roll allowed for room for the solution to get at the film.

Never saw them sell one, and so I don't know if it worked.

The new stuff advertised here is intriguing for sure, although the shipping restrictions make it useless for so many people. It is not rated as per capacity, or shelf life on the order page. if it is used one shot it would be quite expensive.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 23, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
The problem with monobaths is that they just don't work very well.

What do you think of these results?

Gallery of photographs processed in R3 Monobath

There is a distinctive look to them for sure. But if they are truly as scanned, posted, and described, then I couldn't honestly say it doesn't work very well.

Ken

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 23, 2015

Haist argues, well I think, that in terms of visual results, a monobath should work as well as a conventional developer. The edge effects are certainly characteristic of the sharp monobath look, so I think there's even something they do that is visually interesting beyond what a traditional developer does, if you like the look.

Another attraction is that monobath development requires less handling of the film, so it can be a good way of processing, say, individual sheets of ULF film in a tray.

Because monobaths are highly alkaline, there is some emulsion softening, but this is less of a problem with modern films that have hardened emulsions.

The problems are more practical.

They work best when they can be calibrated to the film, because the fixer is the "timer" for the developer. FX6a allows you to adjust the hypo content to work with the film. New 55 R3 is one-size-fits-all.

Temperature control is also a bit more critical with a monobath, but maybe this is a way to calibrate development time (as opposed to the overall process time, which remainst constant) with R3, without being able to adjust the fixer concentration.

Monobaths can last a long time before they are used, but then they degrade quickly and produce sludge after the first use. Haist recommended some sequestering agents to resolve this problem, but they are expensive and hard to obtain for a small-scale user. If you batch your film to exhaust the monobath before it sludges up, it can be more economical, but otherwise, monobaths need a high concentration of developing agent to balance out the fixer, so they are expensive, if you aren't using the solution to capacity in a relatively short time (like a day or so).

I don't know if this version of R3 addresses the sludge problem, but if it does, then it's solved a major obstacle.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 23, 2015

Well, I've never used them. Which is why I'm asking.

I do remember the develop-in-the-cassette trick using a monobath, described by Charles, from waaay back in the dark ages. In fact, I also remember a variation wherein one used the cassette itself as the developing "tank". But I never tried either.

Do you know what the "sludge" is composed of? Can it be mitigated after formation?

Seems to me a special case like Weegee could have made great use of monobath techniques out of the trunk of his car while parked next to the carefully arranged dead bodies.

Ken

removed account4 · Mar 23, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
John, ID-11 wouldn't work very well. A monobath needs a very active developer composition. They are therefore most commonly based on the Phenidone-hydroquinone combination, in relatively high concentrations compared with the standard working solutions of Phenidone-hydroquinone developers. This is likely one of the reasons the "scratch" formula uses HC-110. If one hates Kodak for some reason, a possible replacement for HC-110 could be Ilford's Ilfotec HC. The posted scratch formula looks rather crude to me. My guess is the New55 commercial product would be a better option.

Regarding scratch mixing of monobaths, they often use a sodium hydroxide alkali. Take proper precautions regarding the handling and mixing of hydroxides. The same can be said for introducing things like household ammonia solutions into your darkroom. Please be careful.

hi michael

i was just talking out of the side of my mouth since i am clueless about developer compositions and which are more or less active or even what hte composition of hc is
i have never used it, and seeing it was originally used as a replacement ( or thought of to be a repalcement ) for d76 that is why i mentioned ID which is sort of like d76 ..
im glad you corrected me...
i suggested he use the ilford developer ( instead of the actual monobath being sold )
because he lives outside the us and the developer from what i thought i understood ( now mis understood ? ) can't be shipped overseas ...
and seeing the qualls formula the developer is based on uses hc, and the person refuses to use kodak products ...

at least i got the ilford part right LOL

personally, i think this developer is a great thing! there is a long history of monobaths, and it is a great way to fund
their project, by adding another commerical and useful product people can buy and use, and not have to worry about
armloads of different developers in their darkroom. if i wasn't living off of s&h greenstamps i'd buy armloads of this stuff
but i don't think they take green stamps for payment ...

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 23, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Do you know what the "sludge" is composed of? Can it be mitigated after formation?

Ken

The sludge results from a cycle where the fixed out silver from the film is developed by the developer in the solution, exhausting the developer and producing this sludge as a byproduct. If I recall correctly, Haist's solution was to isolate the fixed out silver with a sequestering agent, but the chemicals that do that are costly and not the sorts of things you'll find at Formulary or Artcraft.

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 26, 2015

Just posted on the New55 blog site...

R3 Monobath Developer Resource Page

Ken

Ektagraphic · Mar 26, 2015

cmacd123 said:
the concept is always intriguing. Back in the 60s the local camera store had a tiny clear plastic film Tank from Japan. you would stic in the entire 20 exposure cassette and add the little bottle of monobath and wian and rewind the film for some number of minutes, then take the film out or the now ruined cassette, wash it and hang it up to dry. Item was promoted as a way to check that your camera was still working when you were travelling. using a 20 exposure roll allowed for room for the solution to get at the film.

Never saw them sell one, and so I don't know if it worked.

The new stuff advertised here is intriguing for sure, although the shipping restrictions make it useless for so many people. It is not rated as per capacity, or shelf life on the order page. if it is used one shot it would be quite expensive.

This is neat! I always enjoy hearing about these things, and wonder where technology would have taken us if the majority of capture still relied on film! Haha

Peter de Groot · Jul 8, 2015

Right now you can order the monobath from anywhere in the world. So you can try it out. If you want to push or pull whlie developing you can use different temperatures to achieve this.

Meyer Trioplan · Nov 16, 2015

A new formulation has replaced R3, called R5. It is intended to better allow agitation within the development process.

I've been toying with the idea of using something like this for sheet film as it would certainly make that process easier.

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swhiser · Dec 20, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
The first use of a monobath was reported in the BJ of 1859. Since then numerous formulas have been proposed. Some have even become commercial products. None of them were able to satisfactorily overcome several severe problems. Among these are

o A higher than normal level of fog.
o Softening of the emulsion.
o Film specificity.
o Loss of film speed.
o Sludging of the bath from non-image silver.

When Haist's book first came out I tried a couple of the formulas. The best results were with his MM-1 formula. I am interested in seeing if this new product has succeeded where others have failed.

Haist is a part of history and not to be discounted; however, Haist -- because of his Kodak affiliation -- vehemently ruled out ammonia.

R5 uses ammonia to achieve the proper acidity and performs well on all of the above counts while working effectively with a wide variety of emulsions including those tested here: TXP, TMY, HP5 Plus, Delta 100, Rollei Retro 80s in 35mm.

"The Reel Truth about Monobaths" ...
http://www.new55.net/2016/08/12/the-reel-truth-about-monobaths-part-i-35mm/

R5 MONOBATH DEVELOPER IS successful -- selling briskly. We need to mix it in Europe to satisfy the strong demand there (since it is expensive to ship).

-Sam

New55 Monobath Developer

Ektagraphic

Ricardo Miranda

removed account4

Gerald C Koch

Ken Nadvornick

Ricardo Miranda

removed account4

Gerald C Koch

Ken Nadvornick

Gerald C Koch

Ken Nadvornick

David A. Goldfarb

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Ricardo Miranda

vdonovan

cmacd123

Ken Nadvornick

David A. Goldfarb

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Ken Nadvornick

removed account4

David A. Goldfarb

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Ken Nadvornick

Ektagraphic

Peter de Groot

Meyer Trioplan

swhiser

New55 Monobath Developer

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