New vs Old - exposure situation

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 1, 2007

I know I should probably have either of my cameras fixed, and my beloved Rolleiflex gets first go as soon as I get paid for the next print sale.

Here's my situation. I have two medium format cameras. One Rolleiflex TLR, and one Mamiya 645. When I use the Rollei I get perfect negs every time. It's like an extension of my arm, literally. Love that camera!
Then I use the Mamiya and I get poor shadow detail, as much as a two stop underexposure compared to the Rollei. I meter with a Gossen Luna Pro, as I always have, and it's gone well until I received the Mamiya camera. My Pentax 35mm equipment produces fine negs, and my LF cameras produce fine negs with this meter, it's just the Mamiya that's acting up. Can a shutter go out of calibration so it actually closes faster than what the speed on the button says? I am very curious about this.
The other alternative is that both my meter, me, and all my other cameras are out of calibration....

What do you think? This ever happen to you?

- Thomas

Roger Hicks · Sep 1, 2007

Old shutters very seldom run fast, though it's possible at higher speeds with FP shutters that the gap has closed a bit. My old Pentaxes run a stop slow and old leaf shutters often run 1/2 stop slow at normal hand-held speeds, but 2 stops does sound very odd indeed. Have you access to a shutter speed tester?

My wife's 35/5.6 Apo-Grandagon on the Alpa requires an extra stop, but my suspicion here is that it's a big shutter for the focal length and aperture, so the shutter is preternaturally efficient: I've not run my shutter speed tester over it to find out, as it's a consistent 1 stop, and who cares?

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 1, 2007

Well, I'm in the process of trying to get all of my camera gear serviced, but this introduces a problem in film developing. Since the exposure is so different between the two cameras, and I like to batch develop roll film, I have to develop the films shot with respective camera separately, and that's a huge pain in the 'you know what'.
Other than that I like both cameras and want to continue to use them.
We'll see what happens after they're CLA treated.

- Thomas

Roger Hicks · Sep 1, 2007

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Since the exposure is so different between the two cameras, and I like to batch develop roll film, I have to develop the films shot with respective camera separately...

- Thomas

Dear Thomas,

Not really. Surely you just open up 2 stops/use 4x the shutter speed with the Mamiya, so that they all receive equivalent exposure? That's what I do with the Pentaxes (one shutter speed shorter) and the 35/5.6 (one shutter speed longer) and I can develop everything at the same time.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Roger

Chuck_P · Sep 1, 2007

Thomas,

Just my two cents, but if the money is there to do the shutter testing and servicing, then I think it is a good thing to do. Though I would deal with it as Roger suggests if I had to, but I personally would not want cameras/lenses that I have to operate (think about) differently from exposure readings of the same meter. To me, that would just be a headache that I could do without.

Good day.
Chuck

Roger Hicks · Sep 1, 2007

Chuck1 said:
To me, that would just be a headache that I could do without.

Dear Chuck,

No argument there. It's just a question of what you're willing to pay for your headache pills...

Cheers,

R.

MattKing · Sep 2, 2007

Thomas:

Do you have more than one lens for the Mamiya? If not, maybe it is a problem with the aperture on the lens.

Alternatively, it might be a problem with the interconnection between the camera and the lens that permits open aperture viewing (the lens is stopping down farther than it should at the moment of exposure).

Are you sure you haven't inadvertently left a polarizer or ND filter on the Mamiya?

Matt

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 2, 2007

Well, see, that would have been the smart thing to do. Where's the fun in that...?

Thanks Roger. Sometimes I get stuck on seemingly unbelievably stupid details like this.

- Thomas

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Thomas,

Not really. Surely you just open up 2 stops/use 4x the shutter speed with the Mamiya, so that they all receive equivalent exposure? That's what I do with the Pentaxes (one shutter speed shorter) and the 35/5.6 (one shutter speed longer) and I can develop everything at the same time.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Roger

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 2, 2007

Hey Chuck,

thanks for re-affirming that my Mamiya is likely to be in need of some repair / adjustment. I like the ergonomy of the camera, except for when I want to shoot vertical images, which I do a lot, so I may just dump it in favor of a square format SLR instead.

What you described, having two cameras doing completely different things with the same meter reading, is just a pita.

- Thomas

Chuck1 said:
Thomas,

Just my two cents, but if the money is there to do the shutter testing and servicing, then I think it is a good thing to do. Though I would deal with it as Roger suggests if I had to, but I personally would not want cameras/lenses that I have to operate (think about) differently from exposure readings of the same meter. To me, that would just be a headache that I could do without.

Good day.
Chuck

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 2, 2007

Hi Matt,

I've got three lenses for it, and one tele-extender, so I've tested it with:
1. 80mm f/2.8
2. 150mm f/4
3. 300mm f/5.6
4. 2x300mm f/11

Same results with all three lenses / four combinations. This just furthers my belief that I need to have this camera over-hauled.

Thanks,

- Thomas

MattKing said:
Thomas:

Do you have more than one lens for the Mamiya? If not, maybe it is a problem with the aperture on the lens.

Alternatively, it might be a problem with the interconnection between the camera and the lens that permits open aperture viewing (the lens is stopping down farther than it should at the moment of exposure).

Are you sure you haven't inadvertently left a polarizer or ND filter on the Mamiya?

Matt

JLP · Sep 2, 2007

Thomas, think you are on the right track about the camera. Sell both and buy that Hassy you really want. How can you not? It's a matter of Swedish pride. Hey just joking.

The Mamiya 645 is a great camera, don't know what model you have but i did have a 645 Pro TL and loved the camera until i got my 503CW, it just felt like a 35mm after that.
Maybe just time to rethink?

jan

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 4, 2007

Hey Jan,

I wish I could afford a Hasselblad... I just blew all my camera money on a new 4x5 rig. Perhaps I should just shut up and use that more...
I think the Mamiya feels like 35mm no matter what camera I compare it to, even my Rolleiflex. I am doing my last portrait job in October where I'll use the 645, then I'll hopefully sell it for something I like using better. Perhaps I can scrape together enough money to buy me an old 500 c/m or something.

- Thomas

New vs Old - exposure situation

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