New to wet printing. What are some must try papers (before they are gone forever)

cirwin2010 · Jan 3, 2021

In short, what are some of the communities recommended "must try" papers. Seems like there aren't many options left other than Ilford, Foma, and Bergger. I understand that many of the existing brands are either re-brands (Arista) or are using the same company for coating (Harmon). Seems like Oriental is gone (I think?) and Adox is out of stock for a while. What should I try before it is gone or for something special?

I bought some Adorama Varibale Grade Fiber paper 16x20" but that has been a disappointing experience. I bought it mostly for cost reasons while I experiment with larger size prints, but I still wanted something a bit better than what I got. The resulting prints just seemed a bit bland and it didn't take to selenium toning well. There was also some sort of packing failure or manufacturing issue with my paper that I can elaborate on if anyone wants to know. This paper option may be going away given the lack of size options (only 16x20), but I am going to stay away from it in the future.

I purchased a number of other papers to try out soon. I have listed them here if anyone has any thoughts about them:
-Bergger Prestige Warmtone 16x20 Semi-Matte (was cheaper than Ilfords offering and supposedly tones well and is quality)
-Ilford Cooltone FB 11x14 (got a 10 pack as I am curious what cooltone paper is like, but I hear it does not tone well like other ilford multigrade paper)
-Ilford Multigrade V Satin 8x10 (probably better than the expired RC paper I currently have)
-Fomabrom 112 Variant III VC FB Matte 8x10 (Curious how matte darkroom paper compares to the matte cotton rag inkjet paper I love printing on. I don't know how this stuff should tone)

R.Gould · Jan 3, 2021

For the right subject Ilfords Art 300, which is a photo rag art paper, is unbeatable, a lovely paper for still life, portraits and some landscapes, also the Ilford MG Classic FB paper is a very very good paper, and when it come back the Adox MCC or MCP, the first is FB and the second is RC paper are well worth trying.
Richard

koraks · Jan 3, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
Ilford, Foma, and Bergger

Fortunately, all three of those make a variety of excellent papers.

cirwin2010 · Jan 3, 2021

R.Gould said:
For the right subject Ilfords Art 300, which is a photo rag art paper, is unbeatable, a lovely paper for still life, portraits and some landscapes, also the Ilford MG Classic FB paper is a very very good paper, and when it come back the Adox MCC or MCP, the first is FB and the second is RC paper are well worth trying.
Richard

I've read in one post that the Art 300 doesn't retain detail well so it doesn't work well for some subjects. How true is that? Is the cotton rag nature of this paper similar to inkjet paper in texture?

JensH · Jan 3, 2021

Hi,

Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone ("MGW").
For contact printing:
Adox Lupex.

Jens

removedacct1 · Jan 3, 2021

Fomatone Classic FB. Its the closest thing to Agfa Portriga Rapid still available.

eddie · Jan 3, 2021

Your post says you're new to wet printing. How much experience do you have? Have you done much dodging, burning, or worked with contrast filters?
PS- I don't know why this is posted in the color forum. You may get more responses in the B&W forum.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 3, 2021

Let's see... When I first started out back in '91, Japan, I used what was abundant. Fuji papers. Then Ilford papers made their way onto the shelves of the store I frequented. Fuji b/w papers went away, but by then I was using Ilford mostly... And Forte Polygrade V (best paper I ever used and was saddened when they went bye bye). If I were starting today, I'd stick with a company that's in it for the long haul......

Prest_400 · Jan 3, 2021

The main brands staying, say Ilford, Foma and Adox are here to stay, specialky if you go for the general VC FB paper.
Adox is currently having production issues with MCC/MCP and they scheduled to release Polywarmtone last year.

eddie said:
Your post says you're new to wet printing. How much experience do you have? Have you done much dodging, burning, or worked with contrast filters?
PS- I don't know why this is posted in the color forum. You may get more responses in the B&W forum.

Exactly, I would begin with a simpler approach. Have myself only printed for a couple years but was lucky to have a pile of Ilford MGIV RC from my camera club membership and gotten to print a lot with it. Ilford overall is great and gives fantastic results plus I do not feel they will take away any of their products -- they are commited.

Having said that, off to the fears. Someone mentioned to me the stash of old fogged papers were good for Lith printing. And I tried, and now am rather hooked in it.
Orwo 111, Efke, Forte, Agfa, Kodak. Heaps of old paper that works well with this alt method. Modern paper does not do so and it is a list of few papers currently manufactured that do work for Lith. If you go that way... I understand your fear of losing the material. Foma tweaked emulsions years ago and all I know that the lithability suffered.

But for straight printing, I'd say it seems fine. If anything there are supposedly two papers coming: Adox Polywarmtone (following the legacy of Forte) and some new material that is mentioned in Tim Rudman's newsletter, for which something will be known on January 12. There is a thread on it somewhere around here.

MattKing · Jan 3, 2021

Welcome to Photrio.
I've "reported" the forum issue to the moderators, who will likely move it to a Black and White materials forum.
Don't worry, its the sort of error that those new to the site make sometimes.
The Ilford Cooltone papers are both very nice. I make more use of the RC version than the FB version.

mrosenlof · Jan 3, 2021

If you're new to wet printing, you will have your hands full for a little while just working on how to make good prints. Pick a respected paper and stick with it until you're consistently making prints with good exposure, good contrast, dodged and burned as appropriate and spotted as necessary. It's not time to go trying multiple paper types.

Assuming B/W, Ilford MG RC is a good choice for a first paper.

Wayne · Jan 3, 2021

Most of the "must try" papers are already gone, and we're left with the "must use" papers. The one you "must try" would be Polywarmtone, if it's comeback many years in the making ever actually occurs. Could happen in the next year, we'll see. Many people love the Ilford papers, I've never tried the other European offerings but I'd like to.

cirwin2010 · Jan 3, 2021

I'm not sure how this ended up in the color part of the forum, I thought I posted in the B&W section. Sorry about that.

Maybe it isn't the best way to go about it, but I am approaching this like I did Inkjet printing. I bought a bunch of different papers to try out and see what sticks. I am currently looking for "what sticks" for my work. Finding Inkjet paper in that was close to what I liked was easy given a local store had sample books available. I could touch and see the paper for up close inspection. I don't have this with darkroom paper. I just have short descriptions by the manufacturer and hundreds of forum threads talking about paper which are subject to all sorts of variables. I want to experience these different products for myself to see what looks good to me, especially for those that don't seem as talked about such as Ilford's Cooltone paper (is this the only cooltone paper left?).

I've experimented with dodging, burning, and contrast filters on my old paper and I think I have a basic grasp on it (obviously still have a ways to go to master). I wanted to use the old paper for test prints before moving to the nicer Adorama fiber paper for a "final" image, but the paper I received had some sort of contamination in the form of white spots and arrived with a light leak that effected the corners of part of the stack. This is was kicked off wanted to try a bunch of new paper as I went through many sheets before I had a "clean" print. I did get a partial refund from Adorama though.

cirwin2010 · Jan 3, 2021

Wayne said:
Most of the "must try" papers are already gone, and we're left with the "must use" papers. The one you "must try" would be Polywarmtone, if it's comeback many years in the making ever actually occurs. Could happen in the next year, we'll see. Many people love the Ilford papers, I've never tried the other European offerings but I'd like to.

I've seen this pop up a few times now. What is Polywarmtone and why is it so anticipated?

MattKing · Jan 3, 2021

Ilford used to offer a very reasonably priced paper sampler. It would be worth looking for one of those.
Some of the samples have been replaced, but still ...
If you really want to frustrate yourself, look for a Kodak Darkroom Dataguide from the 1970s, to see the plethora of actual paper samples included therein.
There are a lot of other things in those Dataguides, some of which are still useful.

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 3, 2021

Wet printing is not ink jet printing. Get any known brand and practice until it comes out right. Only then you may see subjective element of different makes.

I would start with Ilford RC MG and not change until printing process gives good results. RC are easier to handle faster to wash, and deliver great image quality.

Wayne · Jan 3, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
I've seen this pop up a few times now. What is Polywarmtone and why is it so anticipated?

Its a paper formerly made by Forte which is being revived by Adox, Its a warmtone paper with beautiful midtones that is very conducive to changes in color tone with different developers and toners. Most warmtone papers print greenish, without toning. I don't tone and I don't like green.

koraks · Jan 4, 2021

Witold said:
Wet printing is not ink jet printing. Get any known brand and practice until it comes out right. Only then you may see subjective element of different makes.

Exactly.

radiant · Jan 4, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
-Ilford Multigrade V Satin 8x10 (probably better than the expired RC paper I currently have)
-Fomabrom 112 Variant III VC FB Matte 8x10 (Curious how matte darkroom paper compares to the matte cotton rag inkjet paper I love printing on. I don't know how this stuff should tone)

Ilford V is great in tonality, but I would go with pearl finish. Satin produces a bit grayer blacks. I would also suggest you master printing with the Ilford V paper before anything. I would also suggest 5x7" size - it is enough big to practice the skills and in terms of price it is pretty cheap.

otto.f · Jan 4, 2021

Last year I tried Foma fibre based, Ilford MG fibre based classic, old Agfa Classic and Bergger CB and NB. For me Bergger is the winner with distance. Ilford is ok, but I see more depth in Bergger, the surface of the paper is very beautiful. NB is a lot more light sensitive btw. I also used Adox fibre based but it was not reliable, all kinds of errors and light leaks. They have withdrawn all their papers and I trust they will come out with something special when they are ready for it.

As a developer I use Moersch eco 4812 btw, not unimportant I guess. Awfully good, rich blacks, long shelf life, long working solution capacity and shelf life, environmentally good, which feels better too.

etn · Jan 4, 2021

If you are new to printing start with a resin coated paper, which is easier to handle than fibre based.
I am partial to the ADOX MCP 310 (glossy) - it exists in matte (MCP312) if you prefer. Beautiful and easy to work with, Gives great results with their environmentally frieldy Neutol Eco developer.

Other papers are surely good too, buy small packages at first and see what you like.

R.Gould · Jan 4, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
I've read in one post that the Art 300 doesn't retain detail well so it doesn't work well for some subjects. How true is that? Is the cotton rag nature of this paper similar to inkjet paper in texture?

as I said, it works beautifully for some subjects, not all, I does retain detail, but, but it is an art paper, almost like a cartridge drawing paper, and is a warm paper, for portraits and still life it is beautiful, for some landscapes and seascapes it works well, it is almost dead mat, and tones beautifully is sepia,I did a series of prints of a Victorian Christmas on it a couple of years and the look of this paper was perfect, as faras beeing similer to the cotton rag inkjet paper, I couldn't tell you as I have never used inkjet, I only ever have wet printed, it is expensive, and triple weight, in the size I use, 9 1/2 by 12 you only get 30 sheets pwer box rathe than 50, it is to thick to get 50 in, best thing is to get a pack and try it, choose the right subject and it is unbeatable

koraks · Jan 4, 2021

otto.f said:
I also used Adox fibre based but it was not reliable, all kinds of errors and light leaks.

That's odd. I have printed on MCC110, MCC112, MCP310, MCP312, and Adox Variotone, with not a single defect across hundreds of sheets.

otto.f · Jan 4, 2021

koraks said:
That's odd. I have printed on MCC110, MCC112, MCP310, MCP312, and Adox Variotone, with not a single defect across hundreds of sheets.

Yeah, could be coincidence. Anyway, we have to wait now, because there aren’t any Adox papers available

eddie · Jan 4, 2021

Like others here, I recommend using 8x10 RC paper until you're confident in your printing skills.
When I taught, I had my beginning students save an early print they thought was good. At the end of the semester, I had them reprint from the same negative. They were always shocked by how much better the latter print turned out.

New to wet printing. What are some must try papers (before they are gone forever)

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New to wet printing. What are some must try papers (before they are gone forever)

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