New to printing

[OptiKen]

This weekend I picked up an Opemus III enlarger from a Craig s list add for free. It's earlier in my hobby to begin wet printing but a direction I wanted to take soon. 'Free' made this the opportune time. While this isn't the enlarger I would have bought for myself, 'Free' made it a perfect solution.

So, here I am. Enlarger in box, window and door seals to convert a bathroom to a mini-darkroom, negatives, filters, timer, bamboo tongs (these came with the enlarger) and nothing else. Now I will have to begin acquiring chemicals, trays, a system for drying prints (even just a clothes line and clothes pins across the bath tub), decent thermometer (how many do I need?), and knowledge.

My first question (ok, 2nd - I already asked how many thermometers I will need) is, how many trays and what material do they need to be made out of? Will aluminum baking pans work (the disposable type in grocery stores)?

Next, can any low wattage red light bulb work as a safe light?

Thanks in advance.
It's going to be a fun journey

Ken

 

[Terry Christian]

I'm not sure if aluminum would be safe for chemicals, but if you have access to a warehouse store or a kitchen supply retailer, plastic bus pans (made for collecting dirty dishes in restaurants) are great. They'll hold up to 11x14 paper and have high sides so liquids won't slosh out.
And no, the bulb has to be constrained within a certain wavelength, so just any red won't work.
The same kind of thermometer you use for developing film will work.

 

[snapguy]

a buck

You can find plastic bins at a dollar store that will work for prints up to 8x10. I would not use metal trays.

 

[mesantacruz]

I believe freestyle photography is near, maybe an hour away? (several of us get our chemicals form here)
As a suggestion i always saw stuff being given away for free in the L.A. area away for free as well, or really inexpensive. maybe make a trip out of it.
getting photography trays is a better investment, as they will last a lifetime. You only need 4 to get started and the ALUMINUM ones are NOT recommended.

for drying your prints i got some clips at Blicks art stores for $0.20 each (same ones that photo stores sell for $1 dollar and up)... and get any old wire line from home depot or lowe's, or even the plastic one. the clips should only hold onto the print and hang from the line.

as for safelight i would go with an led that you can use with whatever you have available already

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

i personally would make a trip to freestyle for the chemicals . You only need dektol (developer), and kodak fixer.... this is the minimum where you'll use water as a stop and as a final wash. you can also
use acetic acid as a stop bath and hypo clear as a final wash, and selenium tone... and the list goes on as to how complicated you want to make things...
remember the search tool is your best friend here on apug as there's lifetimes worth of information here with almost every imaginable quest having been asked (almost). but as everyone will always say remember to keep it fun.

 

[removed account4]

You can find plastic bins at a dollar store that will work for prints up to 8x10. I would not use metal trays.

+1

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've bought new trays on Ebay, but you can be creative and use other trays. I've heard of some folks use kitty litter pans. For safelights, I've ditched my humming Thomas Duplex safelight for a string of red LED Christmas lights. Halloween orange LED lights might work too. But test it on your paper first.

 

[Konical]

Good Afternoon, Optiken,

It's not a big deal, but having several separate thermometers makes life a little easier. Just label them "D" for developer, "S" for stop, "F" for fixer, "HC" for hypo clear, etc. (Actually, there's no problem in using the same one for stop and fix.) Using one thermometer also works fine, but it should be rinsed before moving from one solution to another, especially if you go "backward" from stop/fixer to developer. A little bit of stop or fixer probably wouldn't have much effect on ten or twelve ounces of developer, but why not just establish good habits from the beginning?

Konical

 

[Rick A]

You really don't need a thermometer for printing, room temps are usually reasonable enough to just go with it, so long as the room isn't overly warm or cold. One thermometer is plenty, mostly used for film developing and initial mixing of chems(mostly developer). Plastic trays are cheap enough, stay away from aluminum trays. Just say NO to red painted bulbs, unless you like fogged paper. I do recommend when using tongs, label them and never use ones for developer that have been in stop or fix(just a precaution) While on the subject of labeling, LABEL EVERYTHING. It is time to be OCD, establish a routine and stick to it. BTW, you will need a good timer, actually a couple(at least) of them. One to operate the enlarger, and I use a couple of cheap(Dollar Store) digital count down timers, one for developer and the other for fix time.

 

[bdial]

Welcome.
As noted, aluminum is too reactive. There are various sorts of plastic tubs that work well. Also there are some plastic drawers sold by Staples and others that work well for 8x10 and smaller paper, since they are sized to hold 8.5x11 or perhaps legal sized sheets, these are very inexpensive. You might try Container Store if it's close by.

If you need a safelight alternative red bicycle tail lights and jogging lights are known to work well, but since LEDs vary, whatever you pick would need to be tested. There are lots of threads here on the details of how to do that.

 

[MattKing]

For black and white, one reasonably good thermometer is fine, but I like using two.

In my case, my "good" thermometer is a very good one - a Kodak Process thermometer III.

It is really large, it is calibrated carefully, and if they still made them, it would probably cost $$$$$.

I use it as a reference.

My day to day thermometer is a kitchen digital thermometer - something like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Taylor-Di...fault&beacon_version=1.0.0&findingMethod=p13n

By itself, the digital thermometer isn't particularly accurate at the temperatures we use in black and white, but it is reasonably repeatable. So to use it, I compare it regularly to my Kodak Process thermometer, and note the variance (usually about 2F).

You don't want more than two thermometers.

Reasonable size (8x10) developing trays seem to be very common around here on Craigslist. I've also seen 11x14/12x16 trays there. Before I restocked my darkroom from there, I bought a few large kitty litter trays - you get very interested looks when you buy 4 kitty litter trays at the same time from a store. If you were nearby, you could have my kitty litter trays for free!

 

[Neal]

Dear Ken,

Buy Paterson Trays. Freestyle sells what looks like the same thing under their house brand (Arista). A set of 3 that will do up to 12x16 is $40. You will never wear them out.
You will need printing filters to control the contrast when using variable contrast paper (the most common paper) as well.

As for the rest, start on Craig's List.

Go here and follow the links. Even if you don't plan to use Kodak products, the information is invaluable.

Here is the same sort of thing from Ilford.

Welcome and enjoy!

Neal Wydra

 

[OptiKen]

Thanks Neal
It looks like I have my weekend reading material already picked out. Great links!

 

[Hatchetman]

besides above, you will need some way to wash the prints. I'm not even going to tell you how I do mine, as it will get shot down as inadequate.

For drying I use a window screen atop a crate. lay them flat.

 

[OptiKen]

besides above, you will need some way to wash the prints. I'm not even going to tell you how I do mine, as it will get shot down as inadequate.

For drying I use a window screen atop a crate. lay them flat.

Aw, come on.
I won't shoot. But I would love to know how you wash yours.
If it works for you, I'd like to hear it. I'm working limited space and resources

 

[John Koehrer]

Years ago David Vestal did some tests for residual hypo and found that an overnight bath eliminated more or as much
fix as a moving water bath.

Something to consider would be buying a good print to sort of set a goal. Shawn Dougherty has a print for film trade offer going right now. It would give you a target to aim for.

 

[Hatchetman]

I have a 11X14 tray with six small holes drilled around the bottom edges. I set it on the ledge of a utility sink and turn on the faucet so that inflow equals outflow. Of course this does not ensure perfectly even water flow across the surface of the print. For fiber based prints, I move it around from time to time over about 30 minutes.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

You can also try

Years ago David Vestal did some tests for residual hypo and found that an overnight bath eliminated more or as much
fix as a moving water bath.

Something to consider would be buying a good print to sort of set a goal. Shawn Dougherty has a print for film trade offer going right now. It would give you a target to aim for.

I've used a tray siphon for years but they use a lot of water.

 

[OptiKen]

Rather than a half hour of running water or an overnight bath, could you just recycle the water over the print continually for 1/2 hour or hour - recycling the same, hmmm, say, 5 gallons of water over and over again on the print?

I have a small (tiny-about 2 inches cube) submersible fountain pump that I picked up for less than $5 that I was thinking of putting in a tank to continually wash prints with minimal water waste

 

[MattKing]

Rather than a half hour of running water or an overnight bath, could you just recycle the water over the print continually for 1/2 hour or hour - recycling the same, hmmm, say, 5 gallons of water over and over again on the print?

I have a small (tiny-about 2 inches cube) submersible fountain pump that I picked up for less than $5 that I was thinking of putting in a tank to continually wash prints with minimal water waste

If you are using RC paper, they wash really quickly.

For fibre based paper, you need a combination of soaking and a slow replacement of the water with fresh. And you have to be concerned about adding fresh "contaminant" each time you add a new, freshly fixed print to the tray.

For fibre based paper, you would be better off rinsing each print thoroughly then placing them into a holding tray. When you are ready to wash, use your small pump to slowly feed new water over the prints, with frequent manual adjustments to prevent prints sticking to each other.

 

[John Koehrer]

Vestals experiments said that water flow is not needed.

Optiken, WRT recirculating, why not? the hypo is still being diffused into the water.

 

[MattKing]

Vestals experiments said that water flow is not needed.

Optiken, WRT recirculating, why not? the hypo is still being diffused into the water.

The rate of diffusion is directly related to the difference in the concentration of the fixer and byproducts in the gelatin and paper vs. the concentration of the fixer and byproducts in the water adjacent to it. So as the water becomes laden with fixer and byproducts, the diffusion will become less effective.

 

[John Koehrer]

But Vestal's results were with standing water. Verified by a separate lab,.
Granted it was with an overnight bath.