New-to-me Contax III -- CLA reference?

Donald Qualls · Jan 6, 2021

The FedEx truck brought my Contax III (pre-War model) from Japan yesterday. It's as nice looking as the eBay listing made it seem; meter works and it's clean, RF appears accurate and the spot is bright. Only thing is, the shutter seems slow.

Now, I'm well aware that Contax RF bodies slow down the shutter transit at speeds below 1/50, but the open time seems about a stop too long on the settings where I can see it. I'll test more when I have time to use the slo-mo video on my smart phone, but I'm inclined to keep the camera, rather than return it, and pay for a CLA. Unlike my two Kiev 4 bodies (one of which has a much worse shutter than this), this one won't meet with "I don't touch Soviet/Russian cameras" from repair shops, and a CLA would still leave this costing less than some of the others I saw while shopping.

Who does good work on Contax RF at reasonable cost (or is that combination possible) and what kind of lead time do they have?

bdial · Jan 6, 2021

I don't know about the the Contax specifically, but Zack's does good work in general, and transformed a Retina to as close to perfect condition as possible for me.

Pentode · Jan 6, 2021

Watching with interest....

BradS · Jan 6, 2021

Contax III == shutter problems.

you might try this guy...

http://www.zeisscamera.com/first.shtml

Larry Cloetta · Jan 6, 2021

BradS said:
Contax III == shutter problems.

you might try this guy...

http://www.zeisscamera.com/first.shtml

I think I have used every repair technician I have ever heard of, at one time or another, most of them more than once, for large format, 35mm, medium format, Rolleiflexes, etc, definitely everyone touted as “the best”, some hardly anyone has ever heard of, and Henry Scherer, over the years, has been the best of all. Might not be the fastest, might not be the cheapest, but there are no compromises involved if he works on it. Either cameras or lenses.

Donald Qualls · Jan 6, 2021

Larry Cloetta said:
I think I have used every repair technician I have ever heard of, at one time or another, most of them more than once, for large format, 35mm, medium format, Rolleiflexes, etc, definitely everyone touted as “the best”, some hardly anyone has ever heard of, and Henry Scherer, over the years, has been the best of all. Might not be the fastest, might not be the cheapest, but there are no compromises involved if he works on it. Either cameras or lenses.

After looking over his web site, I'm sure I can't afford his open-ended services ("If you have to ask, you can't afford it.") and further, apparently, I shouldn't pay anyone else to work on my Contax, either, since (according to Mr. Scherer) no one else still on Earth is qualified to work on one. Further, I shouldn't even attempt to use it, because it's most likely been incompetently worked on at least once in the past, and every shutter cycle is destroying the shutter.

To hear him tell it, I should just send this back to Japan and spend the money on three or four Kievs trying to get a good one.

Larry Cloetta · Jan 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
After looking over his web site, I'm sure I can't afford his open-ended services ("If you have to ask, you can't afford it.") and further, apparently, I shouldn't pay anyone else to work on my Contax, either, since (according to Mr. Scherer) no one else still on Earth is qualified to work on one. Further, I shouldn't even attempt to use it, because it's most likely been incompetently worked on at least once in the past, and every shutter cycle is destroying the shutter.

To hear him tell it, I should just send this back to Japan and spend the money on three or four Kievs trying to get a good one.

That’s nice, typical internet.

I’ve had him do a Contax II and a IIIa as well as several Contax and Contarex lenses for me. You looked at his website, that’s the sum total of your experience. Absolutely none. Even then, you had to mischaracterize it.
I get it, about the impression which can be left by the website, and I can’t address that. But, If that (your snarky description) was how he was to work with, I wouldn’t have posted the opinion I did.
You asked a question about Contax technicians, and someone else posted a link to Scherer’s site without comment. I thought the you might find someone’s real world experience useful, maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the your needs. So, I posted my experience, truthfully, based on actual results. From numerous, detailed, conversations I have had with him over the past several years, my guess is that he probably knows more about Contax rangefinders than anyone else alive. He’s also been the most conscientious and thorough repair person I have ever used, for anything.
I know him, you know his website, and that, not well. Before you assume what he’s like to work with maybe you should actually talk to him. You’d learn something.

I’m sorry if that sounds rude, but the last thing the world needs is people running down the few excellent technicians we have, based on nothing. I understand where you are coming from, if all you have done is read his website, as it can sound a bit like what you are describing, but after having other people work on Contaxes for me, I’d say that the tenor of the opinions on the website is closer to the truth than you might care to believe. If you don’t want to wait, or don’t want to pay for the service, I understand that, but it’s not “open ended” and he probably is the best out there to work on it. If you can ever get in the door, you’ll know what I’m talking about.
If not, Oleg in Russia does a pretty good job, and it’s quicker and less expensive. Some just depends on how important the camera is to you and how much you think you’ll be wanting to use it, and how good you want it to be.
http://okvintagecamera.com/

btaylor · Jan 6, 2021

I wish I could be more helpful, even getting my IIa to someone I had confidence in was tough. A brief look for Contax rangefinder repair brings up several that state right out that they won’t work on the earlier I, II and III cameras. I had my IIa worked on by Gus Lazzari. I don’t know if he works on the earlier ones. He was expensive and took a long time but the work was very good and worth the expense to me. Since the Kiev is a copy of the II and III maybe get in touch with someone who works on the FSU stuff. I contacted Oleg at Fedka some years ago and he referred me to his repair guy Jerry Sorin who took care of the various FSU cameras and lenses I was enjoying. Unfortunately Jerry passed away, but perhaps Oleg can steer you someone who works on Kievs.

btaylor · Jan 6, 2021

The issue for me is the Contax is a great rangefinder- of the highest order in their time, but unlike old Leicas they seem to be murder to work on (especially the shutters!) because of their complexity. My IIa was a beautiful “been in the closet 50 years” example. The CLA was double the cost of the camera, but it should function properly beyond my lifetime, so it was worth it to me.

markjwyatt · Jan 6, 2021

Scherer is probably the best, and he gets paid for what he does (and does a complete job from what I understand). When I wrote him about my Contax iia, he said the waiting list was 4 years, and that is one of the reasons I went elsewhere. I used Ross Yerkes in the Los Angeles area for a CLA. He got it running smoothly, checked out functionality, did some rangefinder alignment, removed a few Zeiss bumps, etc., all for a reasonable price and in a couple weeks.

btaylor · Jan 7, 2021

I don’t use Mr. Yerkes anymore. The last four CLA jobs (truly basic, clean haze from viewfinders, CLA focal plane and leaf shutters) had to go back for corrections. Well, three actually, I will pay someone else to do redo the work on my Nikon SP, it’s not worth the aggravation.

StepheKoontz · Jan 7, 2021

The prewar models had a defective shutter design that had problems even on brand new cameras. Honestly, if it works at all, I would be happy and look for a prewar model to use.

lantau · Jan 7, 2021

StepheKoontz said:
The prewar models had a defective shutter design that had problems even on brand new cameras. Honestly, if it works at all, I would be happy and look for a prewar model to use.

You are mixing this up with the first Contax from the early 30s. Called the Contax I, after the Contax II and III were released a few years later. The II and III are the same, except for the light meter on top of the III.

Apparently the I was a little over-engineered and unreliable. The II was a massive success and more advanced than the Leicas. But still more complex than necessary in order to get around the Leica patents.

Unfortunately that complexity means that it is difficult to find someone to work on them. The silk ribbons, which guide the metal shutter are basically a consumable. Just as much as the rubberised cloth shutters of the Leica and many cameras since. Back in the day it was easy to have them replaced.

I have a 1938 Contax 2. It is in pretty nice condition, doesn't have any of the infamous Zeiss bumps and the shutter is working fine. Suspiciously well, in fact. I'm a bit worried that it might have a Soviet heart inside. The body is definitely genuine and the Morrocon leather still feels amazingly soft.

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2021

Larry Cloetta said:
You looked at his website, that’s the sum total of your experience.

<snip>

But, If that (your snarky description) was how he was to work with, I wouldn’t have posted the opinion I did.

<snip>

I’m sorry if that sounds rude, but the last thing the world needs is people running down the few excellent technicians we have, based on nothing. I understand where you are coming from, if all you have done is read his website, as it can sound a bit like what you are describing

I admit, I don't know Scherer. Just like I don't know you. His web site goes into great detail about how he's the only one who does what he does, correctly, and how every other worker on Earth does the job in a way that will destroy your camera, sooner or later. Then he won't post pricing because others use that as a way to undercut him (for inferior work, of course). What conclusions am I supposed to draw? I did email him asking for pricing and approximate turn around. What more can I do? If he comes back with "you didn't buy this from the USA, so it might cost upwards of a grand to replace Soviet parts", that'll be all I need to hear -- I can't afford to spend that. And I need to know that in time to return the camera as "not as described" if that's what needs to happen. Followed by selling off my two Kiev bodies and all the lenses, because I can't afford Contax and don't have the time or patience to sort out getting a Kiev to work right.

markjwyatt said:
Scherer is probably the best, and he gets paid for what he does (and does a complete job from what I understand). When I wrote him about my Contax iia, he said the waiting list was 4 years, and that is one of the reasons I went elsewhere. I used Ross Yerkes in the Los Angeles area for a CLA. He got it running smoothly, checked out functionality, did some rangefinder alignment, removed a few Zeiss bumps, etc., all for a reasonable price and in a couple weeks.

If he's got a waiting list of four years, he should probably just put that on his front page and hide all other pages until he's caught up a bit. I don't mind him charging enough to make wages for his time, but it would be nice to know what that charge is, up front, instead of that diatribe about how doing it for what others charge would net him about four bucks and hour.

How do we even know what the odds are he'll live four years? He's been "retired" since before he started working on Contax cameras.

Edit to add: I just saw his reply to my inquiry. He claims that installation of a flash sync (an operation commonly done by the Zeiss factory after the War) "absolutely ruins" the shutter and would have to be removed to have any chance of restoring the shutter to correct operation -- and advised me to return the camera ASAP, while referring me to "ready to use" Contax cameras for sale on his site. I appreciate his candor, but I also note that he completely ignored my questions about cost and lead time; in absence of testimonials from past users of his services, this would sound very much like a very polished "buy my higher margin items instead" sort of sales pitch.

The clear bottom line here is that, as seems to happen any time you're on a budget, the final conclusion is "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." I'm going to start a return for the camera this evening when I get home. I'm likely to post a For Sale for my Kiev equipment soon, since I bought it to see if I like the Contax system -- and I do, but I apparently can't afford to play on that field.

Dali · Jan 7, 2021

A 4 year waiting list? You are way optimistic!

I was in his waiting list for at least 4 years to get my Contax IIa shutter checked. After 4 years, there were still dozens and dozens of cameras before mine. So, I sold the camera as I better to do than to wait forever.

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2021

Sigh. And the two cameras he referred to in his email are now both sold -- one still showed this morning, for above $3k with two lenses. I doubt I've got $3k, total, into every camera I own. Including my RB67, with at this time four lenses and four roll film backs, my Graphic View, and all my M42 bodies and lenses.

Clearly you need to be one of those people who can drop $5k without much thought to be able to shoot Contax. Pre-War Leicas are cheaper, and their Soviet clones more functional.

If I had $3k to drop on cameras now, I'd probably spend it on an 8x10 and a starter lens...

Kodachromeguy · Jan 7, 2021

Donald, if you like the morphology of the Contax or Kiev type of rangefinder camera, let me recommend one of the Nikon S2 or SP reissue cameras. They are cheaper than new Leicas and are equipped with what may be the finest 50mm lens ever made. One of them will last you the rest of your life, no hassle, no drama, no fiddling around with repair people.

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2021

@Kodachromeguy I've looked at the Nikon S2 -- one of those from the 1970s would do what I want, but there's the issue with only partial lens compatibility -- lenses other than 50mm, not made specifically for the Nikon S cameras, may or may not work correctly with the S2 rangefinder. And buying Nikon glass to go with a Nikon camera runs into the "If you have to ask..." condition again. I'm virtually certain the SP is out of my price range anyway, though I do see S2 bodies I could possibly afford.

If there were a reasonably reliable and inexpensive way to get a Kiev that works right and will continue to do so, I'd stick with the system. I may try contacting Oleg about sending my less functional Kiev (advance is good, shutter slow and hangs below 1/5) to someone he recommends, perhaps even overseas, if it's something that can get me a working camera in less than a year at a price I can afford. I might also, if I can find the time, consider digging under the top plate of my better one (good shutter, sloppy frame spacing with overlap) and see if I can tighten up the advance clutch. A $40 camera with $200 of work that will last a couple decades is of more use to me than a $3000 camera, or a $300 camera with $1000 worth of work that will last fifty or a hundred years...

Kodachromeguy · Jan 7, 2021

Lens option: Voigtlander (the Japanese recent company) offered some lenses in Nikon specific mount and focus.

ntenny · Jan 7, 2021

For what it’s worth, I’ve had good luck with Contaxen (postwar) and a Kiev (early, from Fedka) without sinking a ton of money into them. One of mine was CLAd before I bought it, I believe by Ross Yerkes, and has run happily for a number of years; the Kiev has been fine under lighter use, and I’ve got one IIIa body that does need some work on the speed selection mechanism.

I guess what I’m saying is, don’t give up on the system just because Henry Scherer is hella expensive. It may make sense to buy CLAd Kiev bodies instead of Contax originals that need work, though.

There’s also the Bessa-R2C, which is expensive but a modern metered platform for the lenses.

-NT

BradS · Jan 7, 2021

All this angry fuss over a 70+ year old small format camera. It won’t fundamentally do anything that a $35 Minolta X-370 can’t do.

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2021

@BradS There are at least two things a 80 year old camera can do that an X-370 can't: give me a smile when I pick it up, and run without a battery on non-DX coded film cassettes. And, at least in my case, it's not "angry" fuss -- it's the shock and disbelief at being told I need to wait multiple years to spend far more than I can afford to fix a camera I can barely afford in the beginning.

@ntenny This wasn't sold as "need work", but I was considering having the work done after I opened the box and found the slow shutter -- because I wanted a reliable Contax camera, and it otherwise appears to be in pretty good condition (how many 80 year old cameras have a working meter?). Looks like we're back to assuming any Contax under a couple grand is in that "needs work" condition, though.

GarageBoy · Jan 17, 2021

Doesn't cameraquest.com still work on these?

I give Leica grief for being simple, but at least there's tons of people that can rebuild one

wjlapier · Jan 17, 2021

Last I read Cameraquest isn’t doing camera repair due to the pandemic.

Steve York · Feb 14, 2021

Radu at 3R camera repairs pre-war Zeiss. He's best known as a specialist for Alpa.

New-to-me Contax III -- CLA reference?

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