New to Large Format (4x5)

paladin1420 · Jan 6, 2008

A friend just loaned me (semi-permanantly) a toyo-view 4x5. It comes with a few lenses, film holders, tripod and roll film back.

I'm very new to large format and I'm not sure where to start. One place I'd like to start is with the roll film back because I have what I need (darkroom-wise) to develop roll film. I have trays to develop 4x5 but I'm much more comfortable with a daylight tank. Also, I'm sure screwing up my first couple of dozen exposures of 120 will be cheaper than screwing up a couple of dozen sheets of 4x5.

My problem is that I'm not sure how to work with the roll film back. It's a Calumet C-2, and I can kind of guess where to the film and take-up spools go, but beyond that I am lost.

Does anyone know how to work one of these things or have a resource to refer me to?

Any other suggestions about where to start with this camera?

Thanks,

Paladin1420

PhotoJim · Jan 6, 2008

Buy, beg, borrow or steal Steve Simmons' excellent book, Using the View Camera. Read it cover to cover, and then read it again. It will give you a great amount of information with which to start.

I have a rollfilm back for my LF system but honestly, I have never used it. Processing sheets is fairly easy; you can do them in trays in the dark easily enough. I guess I figure that if I am going to haul around the larger equipment, I am going to get the bigger negative out of the effort.

P. Yee · Jan 6, 2008

I agreed with PhotoJim. I would add, you might want to start out only processing 1 or 2 sheet film at a time until you get the feel of how it is done. Its really not that hard. Alternatively, if you want to learn to use the camera without the hassle of film processing, get yourself a Polaroid 545i back for the camera and shoot Polaroid films.

k_jupiter · Jan 6, 2008

http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/ins_c2n.pdf

I think this is a pdf for your new roll film holder...

tim in san jose

paladin1420 · Jan 6, 2008

k_jupiter said:
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/ins_c2n.pdf

I think this is a pdf for your new roll film holder...

tim in san jose

Magnificent! That is exactly what I was looking for. Having the manual will (hopefully) prevent me from ruining a roll of film, or worse, the holder itself. Although I imagine it will be hard to hurt the holder, it looks like it could stop a bullet and still work.

Do you use one of these or are you just a better searcher than I am?

Thanks,

Paladin1420
(Louis)

paladin1420 · Jan 6, 2008

PhotoJim said:
Buy, beg, borrow or steal Steve Simmons' excellent book, Using the View Camera. Read it cover to cover, and then read it again. It will give you a great amount of information with which to start.

I have a rollfilm back for my LF system but honestly, I have never used it. Processing sheets is fairly easy; you can do them in trays in the dark easily enough. I guess I figure that if I am going to haul around the larger equipment, I am going to get the bigger negative out of the effort.

Thanks for the info. I will track down a copy of the book. Do you think it will have details that are helpful in using the particular model I have, or are these cameras similar enough that it shouldn't matter?

Paladin1420
(Louis)

PhotoJim · Jan 6, 2008

Louis, te book is pretty generic and applicable to just about all view cameras. The principles are what matters. You should have little difficulty transferring them to your hardware.

JBrunner · Jan 6, 2008

FWIW I think it is harder to shoot a little roll film neg on a large format camera, than a 4x5 sheet. You will be composing, focusing and using movements on a smaller scale, so everything will be that much more touchy and hard to discern. Tray processing seems intimidating, and seems to be what puts people off, but it is really pretty easy, so don't let that dictate things. You might as well figure it out sooner than later.

The HP combiplan (leaky thing that it is) can let you develop six sheets, as you would develop roll film, in daylight. If you use it, you need to read and follow the instructions carefully, particulary you must open the vent when filling, or it will take too long. I use it because it saves time with my developing 4x5, but I tray developed for a long time. Start with a single sheet.

Steve's book is great. If you are familiar with one view camera, most others are alike enough that the same principles apply with little effort.

removed account4 · Jan 6, 2008

louis,

i am not sure if where you live is big enough to set it up in your
house and play with it, but that is also a good way to get used
to things before you use film ...
set it up level it out and play with it.

get used to putting on lenses and focusing ,
and playing with the swings and tilts and shifts ..
there is a lot of mystique about a view camera,
but is it mostly remembering the dance you have to do
before and after you cock and fire the shutter.

have fun and good luck!

john

fschifano · Jan 6, 2008

I'm with JD on the CombiPlan tank. I have one, and I use it. It does leak a bit, but it's not so bad. Just remember to screw the vent closed after filling, otherwise you'll have a giant mess and ruined film on your hands.

paladin1420 · Jan 6, 2008

jnanian said:
louis,

i am not sure if where you live is big enough to set it up in your
house and play with it, but that is also a good way to get used
to things before you use film ...
set it up level it out and play with it.

get used to putting on lenses and focusing ,
and playing with the swings and tilts and shifts ..
there is a lot of mystique about a view camera,
but is it mostly remembering the dance you have to do
before and after you cock and fire the shutter.

have fun and good luck!

john

I do have enough space to set it up and play with it indoors. I was doing so yesterday, figuring out how to work the lens, adjust the focus, pretend to have film in the film holders etc. My wife was watching me and observed "This is not for action shots, is it?" ;-) I guess not.

I think I got most of the lens parts figured out - at least I don't think I managed to damage them. Although I was a bit embarrassed when I finally figured out that these lenses have caps on the back as well as the front.

I've taken a few imaginary pictures so far, but I want to be a little more comfortable before I risk any real film.

Louis

paladin1420 · Jan 6, 2008

fschifano said:
I'm with JD on the CombiPlan tank. I have one, and I use it. It does leak a bit, but it's not so bad. Just remember to screw the vent closed after filling, otherwise you'll have a giant mess and ruined film on your hands.

I already have all the equiment needed for tray development. My problem right now is that the room where it's dark enough to do this, and the room with the plumbing is, are not the same room. I'll have to work on a solution. Maybe I can set up the trays in the "dark" room and move the fixer tray to the "wet" room when it's time to rinse. Or work a bit harder on getting the wet room dark. Or just buy a daylight tank.

I still have some time to think about this because I haven't exposed a single sheet yet.

Louis

Phillip P. Dimor · Jan 6, 2008

I've been shooting 4x5 for a few years, I still do 2-4 sheets at a time. I've done up to 30 sheets at a time, but prefer doing smaller batches at a time as I shoot them. Trays are fine. I use unicolor drums and rollers. These work well but my drum is leaking. It's easy to develop anywhere with these though.

Finding a dark room isn't so tough. Just find any room (or closet) with no windows. That's how i've been doing it for about three years. Bathrooms with no windows are probably the easiest place to develop film.

k_jupiter · Jan 6, 2008

I be a better searcher than you. I have a 4x5 Grafex roll film adapter that I never use. I have lots of Mamiya 6x7 roll film adapters that use on my 2x3 Speed Graphic, and an roll film adapter I use on my 3x4 rb graplex.

As far as getting set up for processing 4x5, do a search here on APUG. Lots of information, some which I have contributed. It really isn't hard, once you get a system selected. Once the film is fixed... no need for darkness. I do all my post development wash, photoflo, etc. in hanging holders. Development is done in tubes in a Patterson Series something or other tank.

tim

Removed Account · Jan 7, 2008

paladin1420 said:
I already have all the equiment needed for tray development. My problem right now is that the room where it's dark enough to do this, and the room with the plumbing is, are not the same room. I'll have to work on a solution. Maybe I can set up the trays in the "dark" room and move the fixer tray to the "wet" room when it's time to rinse. Or work a bit harder on getting the wet room dark. Or just buy a daylight tank.

I still have some time to think about this because I haven't exposed a single sheet yet.

Louis

I develop my sheet film in a room without water. I now have some fancy hanger dealybobs but it worked with trays too. I just kept a fourth tray filled with water next to the fixer and when fixing was done transferred the film to the water bath. Then I just carried the water tray to the sink, and washed away. I still do the same thing except with tupperware (or Kodak rubber tanks depending on how much film) and hangers. It works well.

- Justin

steve simmons · Jan 7, 2008

Random thoughts.

I am a great fan of tray developing. I can do 6-8 sheets at a time, all for different developing times, in one session.

If you can get a Polaroid back and some of the 100 speed black and white film. This will help you get instant feedback as you shoot. You won't have to wait to develop your film.

Find a workshop or class around. This will help you immensely and you will meet other lf photographers.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

Ian Grant · Jan 7, 2008

JBrunner said:
FWIW I think it is harder to shoot a little roll film neg on a large format camera, than a 4x5 sheet. You will be composing, focusing and using movements on a smaller scale, so everything will be that much more touchy and hard to discern. Tray processing seems intimidating, and seems to be what puts people off, but it is really pretty easy, so don't let that dictate things. You might as well figure it out sooner than later.

I have to disagree here, I've shot a lot of 6x9 negs & transparencies with my 5x4 Wista and a roll film back, and its no harder than working with 5x4. Admittedly I only use the back with my 90mm or 150mm lenses when I'm in the field and have a limited supply of 5x4 left in mt darkslides. Apart from the film area being smaller, my Wista screen is already marked for 6x9 all movements and focussing etc are identical regardless of the format used.

Ian

paladin1420 · Jan 7, 2008

Ian Grant said:
I have to disagree here, I've shot a lot of 6x9 negs & transparencies with my 5x4 Wista and a roll film back, and its no harder than working with 5x4. Admittedly I only use the back with my 90mm or 150mm lenses when I'm in the field and have a limited supply of 5x4 left in mt darkslides. Apart from the film area being smaller, my Wista screen is already marked for 6x9 all movements and focussing etc are identical regardless of the format used.

Ian

I really appreciate all the advice and help. I think I'm now leaning toward starting with a few sheets of 4x5, for a few reasons.

First, the roll film back I have did not come with either a template for the ground glass to help with composing, or a dark slide. I could probably rig up both, and I probably will, but it's more trouble than I want to take before I get started.

Second, I already have some 4x5 tmax (came with the camera) it's probably a few years old, but it's here and the 120 I ordered is not yet.

Third - don't know why I didn't think of this before - but while 4x5 is more film $ then 120, I have to shoot an entire roll to find out if I'm messing up or not, with the sheets, I can make only an exposure or two to check how I'm doing.

Last - a few folks have made this point already - it's a 4x5, darn it, I should shoot 4x5.

I also ordered a copy of Steve's book I should get it in a few days.

Thanks

Ian Grant · Jan 8, 2008

Louis, you're quite right shoot 5x4 when you can, Using a roll film back is not the way to learn to use a 5x4 camera, however it is an extremely useful back-up so at some stage its worth fixing & making a mask.

Ian

paladin1420 · Jan 8, 2008

I finally had time to set the camera up tonight and shoot a few sheets. Unfortunately, I don't have any chemicals right now, they're on the way and I expect to recieve them in the next few days. I will probably have a result to report by the weekend.

And if the weather is decent on the weekend, I might be able to get a couple of shots in daylight.

Regards,

eddie gunks · Jan 8, 2008

hey,

maybe you want to come out and play with us!

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=32137

we all just get together and have some fun. if you have a car come on over. if not try and get to the city and bum a ride from peter.

we have a great time!

eddie

paladin1420 · Jan 10, 2008

Okay, in case anyone is interested here is a summary of my first results.

Using my 35mm as a light meter, I made 4 exposures on Tuesday evening and processed them last night. Surprisingly, to me anyway, they actually came out pretty well - at least judging by the negatives. I did make a few mistakes though. One sheet was significantly under exposed, which puzzled me (same scene, light, camera position and settings) until I figured out that I had loaded the sheet backwards. I knew what I was supposed to do and I got it right 3 out of four times, but I find it very difficult loading with a changing bag. Next time I'll do it in the dark with some elbow room.

Another mistake I made was that a couple of the sheets were not centered in the holder. I wasn't really checking for that when I loaded, I'll know if for next time.

I also had a hard time drying the negatives. All my clips are for roll film and they pinch pretty good. I tried to clip as close to a corner as possible, but still ended up with little dimples on the film. Any suggestions?

All in all it was a very satisfying experience and I can't wait to take another crack at it.

Regards,

Bob F. · Jan 10, 2008

It's certainly a lot easier to load with plenty of space. I have a changing tent rather than a bag but I only use it when I can't use a darkroom.

If you can remember to smack the bottom edge of the holder into the palm of your hand just before loading it into the camera (I usually forget...) that will seat the film at the bottom of the holder so the film is not at an angle and prevent the film slipping down during a long exposure.

I have used wooden clothes-pins in the past but they can tend to slip so now I use the type of roll-film clip that has sharp pins that pierce the film. I pin the film using just one of the clip's pins in one corner and that works well. Jobo make sheet film clips but they are obscenely expensive...

Good luck, Bob.

palewin · Jan 10, 2008

paladin1420 said:
I also had a hard time drying the negatives. All my clips are for roll film and they pinch pretty good. I tried to clip as close to a corner as possible, but still ended up with little dimples on the film. Any suggestions?
Regards,

Try wooden clothes pins with a "twist" I picked up on the LF Photo forum, attributed originally to Ansel Adams: take the clothes pin apart (its only two pieces of wood and the spring). Reassemble with the wooden parts reversed, so that the two flat sides face each other, slide the spring so that it sits in the notches. (This is easier to do than describe, just sacrifice one clothes pin and try it!). The result is a "needle nose" clothes pin with the two flat ends coming together. These clip very nicely to a small area of the transparant film border, and I've never had a slippage problem. Now if I could master AA's photo techniques, and not just his clothes pins, I'd be home free...

paladin1420 · Jan 10, 2008

palewin said:
Try wooden clothes pins with a "twist" I picked up on the LF Photo forum, attributed originally to Ansel Adams: take the clothes pin apart (its only two pieces of wood and the spring). Reassemble with the wooden parts reversed, so that the two flat sides face each other, slide the spring so that it sits in the notches. (This is easier to do than describe, just sacrifice one clothes pin and try it!). The result is a "needle nose" clothes pin with the two flat ends coming together. These clip very nicely to a small area of the transparant film border, and I've never had a slippage problem. Now if I could master AA's photo techniques, and not just his clothes pins, I'd be home free...

I know they still make film, but do they still sell wooden clothes pins?

New to Large Format (4x5)

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