New to Hand Processing C41 - So Many Issues

Hi everyone. I recently started processing C41 at home with Arista (Freestyle) Press Kits. I am doing my best to follow the instructions to the letter and be as careful and precise as I can but am getting some very mixed results.

I'm using:

- New Arista liquid C41 kit in the quart size.
- Arista quart stainless steel tank with 120 reels.
- Sous vide and Paterson Certified Thermometer for temp.
- Chemistry stored in amber quart bottles in a closed box in a closed cabinet after mixing.

Processing:

Pre-soak 1 minute / no agitation / 102º tap water
Developer / 3.5 mins with inversions for first 10 seconds, then 4 inversions every 30 seconds after / 3 taps on floor for air bubbles after each full set of 4 inversions.
Blix / 6.5 min with inversions for first 10 seconds, then every 4 inversions every 30 seconds after / 3 taps on floor for air bubbles after each full set of 4 inversions.
Wash / faucet, with lid off / between 95ºF and 105ºF for 3 min
Stabilizer / 1 min / inversions first 15 seconds
Hang dry

Scanning:

Epson v700 with both Silverfast and Epson Scan. I scan a lot, but have only recently started processing my own negs. I just started having these issues with the hand processed stuff.

Issues:

1). Streaks down the neg with density variations (film is Portra 400):





2). Magenta coming in on the top and bottom of the neg (both images rotated 90º in Lightroom after scanning). Appears in both SF and Epson Scan, with neg rotated and moved into different positions. There is no density difference or obvious defect in the area on the neg itself (film is Ektar):





3). Deep dents in the neg - from the stainless steel reel - but not sure how to avoid it or what I may be doing wrong:










Bright crescent shaped spots on a bunch of negs off two rolls processed at the same time (didn't have this issue the last few times):



Processed Portra, negs look normal.



Any advice you guys have (hopefully no total shot-in-the-dark random guesses as sometimes happens on other forums but doesn't seem to happen here, thankfully!) would be super appreciated. Total newcomer here.

Thanks!

One problem is the dents on the edges of the film and the cupping marks on number 10(?). These are related to problems loading the film on the reel. What kind of reels are you using? I had much better success loading 120 on to Hewes stainless steel reels than other steel reels and plastic reels. Also with steel or plastic reels clip the corners of the beginning of the roll before loading the reel. The film should go on smoothly and you should not have any bulges or dents in the film.

You may also have some issues with pouring into and emptying the tank. I will leave that for others to guide you on that issue.

Welcome to Photrio.
Both the crescent images and the dents are due to the challenges you are having loading the reels.
The solution is "practice" with sacrificial film - first in the light, and later in the dark.
Believe it or not, film will (sooner or later) go smoothly and easily on to those reels, without the pressure damage from pressing too hard (the crescents).
As far as the other concerns, I would suggest that it is just as or maybe even more important to agitate during the pre-soak than later in the process.

Sirius Glass said:

One problem is the dents on the edges of the film and the cupping marks on number 10(?). These are related to problems loading the film on the reel. What kind of reels are you using? I had much better success loading 120 on to Hewes stainless steel reels than other steel reels and plastic reels. Also with steel or plastic reels clip the corners of the beginning of the roll before loading the reel. The film should go on smoothly and you should not have any bulges or dents in the film.

You may also have some issues with pouring into and emptying the tank. I will leave that for others to guide you on that issue.

Click to expand...

Thanks Sirius!

I've been using Arista stainless steel reels. Do you think different reels would help with that issue? I'll definitely snip the roll next time - didn't do that.

MattKing said:

Welcome to Photrio.
Both the crescent images and the dents are due to the challenges you are having loading the reels.
The solution is "practice" with sacrificial film - first in the light, and later in the dark.
Believe it or not, film will (sooner or later) go smoothly and easily on to those reels, without the pressure damage from pressing too hard (the crescents).
As far as the other concerns, I would suggest that it is just as or maybe even more important to agitate during the pre-soak than later in the process.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome! Being new, I just followed the directions to the letter, which specified no agitation during the presoak, but I'll give that a try.

Ditto to everything from Matt and Sirius. Agitate constantly in presoak. Practice loading the reel in room light. Can you see the large round "streaks" on the film? Possible scanner issue?
Even cheap stainless reels can be loaded by handy youthful hands. I have IR goggles so I can see, but I'm 64. Hewes reels are great. I have never been able to use a changing bag. I sit in my darkroom at a clean table and go slow. The key is the beginning, if you clip, or attach the film to the center of the reel off kilter, you will get exactly what you see
.
I would "waste" a roll of undeveloped film and practice, load it in the light, in the dark, sitting waiting for the bus etc. Because believe me once you get the knack, if you are good with your hands it's amazing how straight forward it is.

I grew up with Paterson. Still no reason to buy anymore equipment. Except maybe some Spynet toy IR goggles.

With respect to the magenta at the edges, that could be the result of a bit of light leak due to a loosely rolled 120 film.

mshchem said:

Ditto to everything from Matt and Sirius. Agitate constantly in presoak. Practice loading the reel in room light. Can you see the large round "streaks" on the film? Possible scanner issue?
Even cheap stainless reels can be loaded by handy youthful hands. I have IR goggles so I can see, but I'm 64. Hewes reels are great. I have never been able to use a changing bag. I sit in my darkroom at a clean table and go slow. The key is the beginning, if you clip, or attach the film to the center of the reel off kilter, you will get exactly what you see
.
I would "waste" a roll of undeveloped film and practice, load it in the light, in the dark, sitting waiting for the bus etc. Because believe me once you get the knack, if you are good with your hands it's amazing how straight forward it is.

I grew up with Paterson. Still no reason to buy anymore equipment. Except maybe some Spynet toy IR goggles.

Click to expand...

Thanks mschem! I will definitely try the agitation during presoak. I just looked up those goggles, those might come in very handy.

I can see the streaks on the film. They are basically lighter color/density streaks on the negs themselves. They aren't on the surface, they're in the film itself.

One thing I haven't been able to understand is why there are those deep dents on both sides, directly opposite each other. If I had the roll too far to one side or the other and there were only dents on that one side I would understand, but the dents are on both sides. Not sure what it is I should do different. I know when you're loading the reels you can wiggle the film to see if it "slides" a in and out a little and has some give, which I do, which I was always told is a good way to see if the film is loaded correctly. Any tips on that?

Something is causing the edges of the film to bind. Practice loading the reel in the light and then in the dark.

I have a friend who ran a successful photo shop for 40 years. He was a athlete, champion speed skater he could load SS reels faster than I could say boo! He wouldn't fool with the center clip, he would just cup the film and get it started in the first groove. He said that way the film could float a bit and wouldn't get off center.

I would try to practice first. Then start to eliminate things. Change 1 thing at a time. The crinkles are simple, either the reels are screwed up (very unlikely ) or you are not going about it correctly.
I know film and chemistry is expensive, but to check out a couple things. The weird streaks? Is it as Matt suggests, possibly loosely wrapped film paper. If the paper gets above the spool flanges it will be light struck around the edges. The streaks could be a light leak or something weird? I have used all kinds of C41 chemistry Kodak Flexicolor is my favorite, but I've used the powder press kits without any big issues. If you are using a changing bag, that’s a major issue for me, I never liked the damn things, my hands sweat.

Here's my one and only contribution to YouTube

mshchem said:

Here's my one and only contribution to YouTube

Click to expand...

Great, thank you. If I continue having trouble maybe I'll consider grabbing a Paterson tank instead of the stainless steel one I'm using.

I also have this issue, which I forgot to add to the original message:

Have you used this camera and film and had commercial processing with good results? I've had streaks in sheet film from one way rotary processing. Buy not like this.

They look great. Once you correct those 'imperfections' you are competing with someone with an iPhone with image stabilization, twice the resolution, improved shadow rendering, better colors and an "Old Color Film Filter."

DH_Studio said:

1). Streaks down the neg with density variations (film is Portra 400):

View attachment 261131

View attachment 261139

Click to expand...

These look like chemistry streaks that result from too long pour-in or pour-out times of the developer. Try to keep those as short as possible; preferably below 15 seconds or so.

2). Magenta coming in on the top and bottom of the neg (both images rotated 90º in Lightroom after scanning). Appears in both SF and Epson Scan, with neg rotated and moved into different positions. There is no density difference or obvious defect in the area on the neg itself (film is Ektar):

View attachment 261132

View attachment 261137

Click to expand...

This looks more like a scanning artifact. Can you see greenish stripes on the negatives themselves in these places?

The dents etc. are due to reel loading issues as the others have pointed out.

DH_Studio said:

I also have this issue, which I forgot to add to the original message:

View attachment 261151


View attachment 261152


View attachment 261153

Click to expand...

These look like most likely light leak issues in the camera or alternatively while loading the film, but more likely in-camera.
There's also a somewhat more remote possibility that they're due to insufficient fixing or blixing, but a light leak seems more plausible.

koraks said:

These look like chemistry streaks that result from too long pour-in or pour-out times of the developer. Try to keep those as short as possible; preferably below 15 seconds or so.


This looks more like a scanning artifact. Can you see greenish stripes on the negatives themselves in these places?

The dents etc. are due to reel loading issues as the others have pointed out.


These look like most likely light leak issues in the camera or alternatively while loading the film, but more likely in-camera.
There's also a somewhat more remote possibility that they're due to insufficient fixing or blixing, but a light leak seems more plausible.

Click to expand...

Thanks koraks. I'll try to speed up the pour and see if that resolves the issue.

I don't see any green on the negs where the magenta is showing up, no weird color issues at all. Silverfast always shifts to magenta and red and that's something I always have to deal with, but even when I spun the negs and rescanned them in Epson Scan the magenta showed up in the exact same space so I don't know what the heck it is.

As far as the possible light leaks:

mshchem said:

Have you used this camera and film and had commercial processing with good results? I've had streaks in sheet film from one way rotary processing. Buy not like this.

Click to expand...

Hi. Yes, until a month ago I sent everything to the lab and have never had any problems at all. I got 3 rolls back from the lab the week I processed these, actually, and there were no anomalies - no light leaks, no weird color issues, etc.

koraks said:

These look like chemistry streaks that result from too long pour-in or pour-out times of the developer. Try to keep those as short as possible; preferably below 15 seconds or so.


This looks more like a scanning artifact. Can you see greenish stripes on the negatives themselves in these places?

The dents etc. are due to reel loading issues as the others have pointed out.


These look like most likely light leak issues in the camera or alternatively while loading the film, but more likely in-camera.
There's also a somewhat more remote possibility that they're due to insufficient fixing or blixing, but a light leak seems more plausible.

Click to expand...

Thanks koraks. I'll try to speed up the pour and see if that resolves the issue.

I don't see any green on the negs where the magenta is showing up, no weird color issues at all. Silverfast always shifts to magenta and red and that's something I always have to deal with, but even when I spun the negs and rescanned them in Epson Scan the magenta showed up in the exact same space so I don't know what the heck it is.

As far as the possible light leaks: I've been shooting this camera, same back, same everything for years and this has only showed up on the rolls I processed myself. The same week I processed my first rolls I got 3 rolls back from the lab and didn't have any issues at all. If it was only one scan or one scanning program I might think it was just that but eliminating variables and still having the issue, haven't eliminated the right one, yet, obviously.