New to Development: fomadon Excel, Delta 100 and a screw-up.

Hello

So I tried to develop my first batch of film at home (after having them sent to labs earlier and getting mixed results).
I have ilford chemicals on order but this batch of development was with Foma chemicals - Fomadon Excel and Fomafix P.

I used the said chemicals in the following way for Delta 100 roll:

10 Minutes development time with vigorous shaking/inversion of the tank (as instructed in the Fomadon Excel charts)
3 minuted wash with water (with increasing inversion rates for every minute)
6 minute fix time. (as per Fomafix charts)

The result was a film with one partially developed negative, one very lightly developed negative and pitch black every where else.

I thought this was a bad result and wondered whether I could redevelop the negative again and went with 45 min develop time, 5 minute wash/stop, 15 minute fix time (no inversions this time, whatsoever).

Net result was a little more developed negatives of the 2 in the first time, everything else pitch black.

Reused chemicals on another roll of Delta 400 to see it wash into pitch darkness as well.

My questions would be this:

1. I mixed the developer to instructions that were similar to this link. And I saw some light orange residue being left over after dissolution (along with a pungent odour while mixing it). Did that result in bad developer?

2. Am I right in assuming that the fixer is okay and it was the developing solution that was either too mild or just not there?

3. My tank took a little over 500ml to fill up with both developer and fixer. Can one reuse the same? or would i have to really use much higher quantities of the developer instead?


[mods: trawled the pages using search but didnt quite find too related a page, please do excuse if repeat thread]

Welcome flyinfiddlesticks. My thoughts are as follows.

1. If negatives are too dark or black, the picture was overexposed, or the film developed for too long/developer was too strong. Given this was a roll of film I ask was there any evidence of the frame numbers only the edge, or was this all black as well. If the frame numbers are there and the edge of the film is relatively clear then exposure is my guess as the issue behind the black frame. If all the film is black then your film has seen light between being in the cassette and being developed and fixed.

2. Once you have run your film through the fixer there is no second chance with doing what you tried. The fixer removes all of the unexposed silver that turns black during development. So you should not be surprised that a second 45min development made no improvement. Please note the developer does not 'lighten' a negative.

3. Developer turns the exposed silver black, the fixer removes any unexposed silver so that the negative does not turn black over time, then destroying your image/s.

4. My questions. Did you load the film spiral for the tank in total darkness? Is your tank light tight, does it have a lid? Your film was not exposed to a darkroom safelight at any stage before being developed and fixed was it?

5. I am not sure what your residue and odours were. I have not used Foma chemistry. I reuse my chemistry on many an occasion, unless I use 'One Shot/One Use' chemistry. The developing tank is used from start to finish of the developing and fixing cycle.

Delta 100 and Fomadon Excel W27 1+0 or the similar Kodak Xtol 1+0 is a good combination. But hearing your problems there is something wrong in loading your film or in the developing tank (light leak).

Here an example of this Delta 100 film (35mm) in above developer for 9:00 minutes at 20C.

Oxleyroad said:

Welcome flyinfiddlesticks. My thoughts are as follows.

1. If negatives are too dark or black, the picture was overexposed, or the film developed for too long/developer was too strong. Given this was a roll of film I ask was there any evidence of the frame numbers only the edge, or was this all black as well. If the frame numbers are there and the edge of the film is relatively clear then exposure is my guess as the issue behind the black frame. If all the film is black then your film has seen light between being in the cassette and being developed and fixed.

4. My questions. Did you load the film spiral for the tank in total darkness? Is your tank light tight, does it have a lid? Your film was not exposed to a darkroom safelight at any stage before being developed and fixed was it?

Click to expand...

Thank you!

Ah I see. I did load in a fairly dark place, with multiple curtains, but yes, I do see no frame numbers. So I guess it did see some light. Would the loading of the reel into the tank also require complete darkness? (daft question, i guess!)

There wasnt any safelight, but it was during daylight, and the tank, while otherwise fairly light-tight - it does have an opening for the solution to be poured in and that doesnt have a lid, unfortunately - do you think that might affect this?

Oxleyroad said:

2. Once you have run your film through the fixer there is no second chance with doing what you tried. The fixer removes all of the unexposed silver that turns black during development. So you should not be surprised that a second 45min development made no improvement. Please note the developer does not 'lighten' a negative.

3. Developer turns the exposed silver black, the fixer removes any unexposed silver so that the negative does not turn black over time, then destroying your image/s.

Click to expand...

I see, I wasnt so sure the 2nd round of developing would do any good as I had read of films going black with just the fixer being used, but I had time on my side (and I figured I might as well try... )

Is it okay if there is some light exposure between development and fixing? or would that harm the film too?

Oxleyroad said:

5. I am not sure what your residue and odours were. I have not used Foma chemistry. I reuse my chemistry on many an occasion, unless I use 'One Shot/One Use' chemistry. The developing tank is used from start to finish of the developing and fixing cycle.

Click to expand...

well, I didnt take a snap of it, I will do so if I find the residue again. Looked a bit weird to me.
I will anyways be using the chemistry on a new roll and figure out if things are working!

Thanks for the very detailed answers, im hoping its only the light exposure between loading and development! Fingers X'd!

Роберт said:

Delta 100 and Fomadon Excel W27 1+0 or the similar Kodak Xtol 1+0 is a good combination. But hearing your problems there is something wrong in loading your film or in the developing tank (light leak).

Here an example of this Delta 100 film (35mm) in above developer for 9:00 minutes at 20C.

View attachment 63572

Click to expand...

That looks gorgeous!
What about the fixing time and the fixer? How much time have you used that for?

flyinfiddlesticks said:

Ah I see. I did load in a fairly dark place, with multiple curtains, but yes, I do see no frame numbers. So I guess it did see some light. Would the loading of the reel into the tank also require complete darkness? (daft question, i guess!)

Click to expand...

Film has to be loaded in total darkness.

flyinfiddlesticks said:

There wasnt any safelight, but it was during daylight, and the tank, while otherwise fairly light-tight - it does have an opening for the solution to be poured in and that doesnt have a lid, unfortunately - do you think that might affect this?

Click to expand...

Sounds like a Paterson tank. They are made to be developed in daylight and you can pour chemistry in and out with no problems. Does the film reel sit on a central column and there's a funnel that clicks into place on top with a hole in the centre to pour chemistry in and out?

flyinfiddlesticks said:

Is it okay if there is some light exposure between development and fixing? or would that harm the film too?

Click to expand...

No, that will fog the film. it's not safe to have light on the film until after fixing.
Try again - it's a simple process once you get it right.

Every panchromatic film must be loaded in any reel in completely darkness. Untill the film fixer process has been finished it should be in the (daylight) developing tank. But this developing tank should avoid any light to the film during processing.

What about the fixing time and the fixer? How much time have you used that for?

Click to expand...

Any rapid fixer should be OK. In my case Rollei RXA 1+4 for 6:00 minutes. Any Delta (Ilford) or Tmax (Kodak) film takes a bit more fixer time then a regular cubical type Silver crystal film like e.g. FP4+ , HP5+ (Ilford) or Tri-X 400 (Kodak).
Take a small snap of film and put it in the fixer (working solution). Make the timing till it is completely CLEAR. You right fix time is 3x the CLEAR time in my case the CLEAR time was almost 2:00 minutes.

I am using a Stop bath (1+19 RCS, based on Citric Acid with indicator) too. It prevents a to quickly contamination of the fixer and the time schedule of an exact developing time (in this case 9:00 minutes) is guaranteed.
When it is going from Yellow to Blue the pH of the Stop is passing 5,5. Then you can put it away and it is finished for the job it did.

Good luck with your next film!

Greetz,

Robert

Michael W said:

Film has to be loaded in total darkness.


Sounds like a Paterson tank. They are made to be developed in daylight and you can pour chemistry in and out with no problems. Does the film reel sit on a central column and there's a funnel that clicks into place on top with a hole in the centre to pour chemistry in and out?


No, that will fog the film. it's not safe to have light on the film until after fixing.
Try again - it's a simple process once you get it right.

Click to expand...

Thanks Michael, I got it right the next day, well night actually. I guess I need a changing bag if I dont wanna develop all my films at night!

Its like a patterson tank, but not quite the same - is light tight though. Its a little weird in that the hole to pour liquid in is at the bottom, so I keep the tank inverted, most of the time.
Was asking about the light exposure cos its just a pain to pour water into the tank - was thinking of washing direct under the tap.
I think I need to get the times more correct. I ran the same dev and fixer on a colour roll but for much longer times both (30mins/wash/15mins) and it resulted in decent output thru. Need to scan the negatives and see how they come out.

Роберт said:

Every panchromatic film must be loaded in any reel in completely darkness. Untill the film fixer process has been finished it should be in the (daylight) developing tank. But this developing tank should avoid any light to the film during processing.

Click to expand...

Yup, the tank is light-tight. A new roll did okay when i ran them through as advised earlier in the thread.

Роберт said:

Any rapid fixer should be OK. In my case Rollei RXA 1+4 for 6:00 minutes. Any Delta (Ilford) or Tmax (Kodak) film takes a bit more fixer time then a regular cubical type Silver crystal film like e.g. FP4+ , HP5+ (Ilford) or Tri-X 400 (Kodak).
Take a small snap of film and put it in the fixer (working solution). Make the timing till it is completely CLEAR. You right fix time is 3x the CLEAR time in my case the CLEAR time was almost 2:00 minutes.

I am using a Stop bath (1+19 RCS, based on Citric Acid with indicator) too. It prevents a to quickly contamination of the fixer and the time schedule of an exact developing time (in this case 9:00 minutes) is guaranteed.
When it is going from Yellow to Blue the pH of the Stop is passing 5,5. Then you can put it away and it is finished for the job it did.

Good luck with your next film!

Greetz,

Robert

Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I shall definitely try the fix time as you advised. Is there a similar way to find out for developing time as well?

Is there a similar way to find out for developing time as well?

Click to expand...

You can measure that out with a reference Grey card and a densitometer which is a calibrated instrument to measure density. But that is an expensive instrument.

Good starting times you can find here:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

The stop bath is only meant to get an exact developing time interval and to prolong the life time of your fixer. 30s-60s is enough for this step.

flyinfiddlesticks said:

Thanks Michael, I got it right the next day, well night actually. I guess I need a changing bag if I dont wanna develop all my films at night!

Its like a patterson tank, but not quite the same - is light tight though. Its a little weird in that the hole to pour liquid in is at the bottom, so I keep the tank inverted, most of the time.
Was asking about the light exposure cos its just a pain to pour water into the tank - was thinking of washing direct under the tap.
I think I need to get the times more correct. I ran the same dev and fixer on a colour roll but for much longer times both (30mins/wash/15mins) and it resulted in decent output thru. Need to scan the negatives and see how they come out.

Click to expand...

When I started developing film I used a bucket and the see-saw method always at night in my father's garage. Later I used always work at night as that would be when I was not at school or work. It is only in the last 8 years that I built a 'darkroom' to use in the daytime.

Washing under the tap is fine, just make sure if the wash is after the developer and you do it total darkness. As others have said total darkness until after the fixer.

As for the colour, brilliant I only thought of developing colour neg film in B&W chemistry in the last three years. I now process a lot of 35mm cine film as B&W reversal!