New to ATL1500, 8x10 C41 & E6 questions

BennehBoy · Sep 26, 2013

I've read a lot of threads on here covering developing 8x10 films in Jobo 2830 drums.

To that end I've taken the plunge and picked up an ATL 1500 & a couple of 2830 drums.

While I'm waiting for the processor to arrive I've been scrabbling aorund trying to find some basic info, I'm hoping that you kind souls might take pity on me and offer up some help. I've read the ATL manual and can't find the info I'm looking for in there either:

1) Can I do a pre-wash as an integral part of the 1500's C-41 or E6 process? I want to minimise the chance of any residual AH due to the 2830 ridges. Should I just manually do the pre-wash in tank before inserting it into the processor? Should the pre-wash be at process temperature, or does it not matter?

2) How much chemistry is needed for 2 8x10's in a 2830, the drum only lists print process volumes? I'm happy to err on the side of caution to begin with, but have no idea what that equates to in volumes.

3) Can the processor be configured to use bottles 1-3 for one chemistry and 4-6 for another (I'll be using tetenal kits), or do I just swap the bottles over. I'm only thinking about this as a means of minimizing contamination between the kits. Or do I just forget this and use the wash cycles between all processes?

Many Thanks.

CatLABS · Sep 26, 2013

Before i answer any of the questions, i will start by saying thag unfortunately, the 2830 tank will not fit in the ATL1500.

On a better note - the 2550 tank, which will hold 1 sheet of 8X10 will fit, and many users have good results with them for 8X10 on ATL1000/1500.

1. No need to prewash C41 or E6, and you can program a wash at any stage with the ATL1500.

2-3. Here is a link the manual answering all of your other questions:
http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_atl-1500_00.htm

BennehBoy · Sep 27, 2013

CatLABS said:
Before i answer any of the questions, i will start by saying thag unfortunately, the 2830 tank will not fit in the ATL1500.

Oops! I thought it was the 2840 that wouldn't fit, there are some misleading posts out there. No biggie I got the 2830's cheap.

BennehBoy · Sep 27, 2013

The processor is coming with 2x 2553 tanks, presumably I can do 1 sheet in these also.

Godzilla in this post looks intersting -> (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

polyglot · Sep 27, 2013

Prewash must be at process-temp; the main purpose of it is to bring the tank to temp.

I can't speak to tank minima, but an 8x10 is basically one roll of film. Say you're doing E6 which has a typical capacity of ~10 rolls/L in two sequential batches (Fuji); you therefore want to make sure you have at least 200mL in the tank and run that working solution twice. Or if you can find a machine for the 2830 and run 2 of 8x10 at once, you want 400mL in the tank and run it twice. Those chemical-capacity minima are so much larger than the physical tank minima, so they're what you need to go by.

Though C41 has more capacity, I'd stick with the same numbers. Using up a small fraction of the chemical activity per process means you can make better guesses at the activity level in the tank, i.e. the developer is not noticeably slowing down within one development cycle.

BennehBoy · Sep 28, 2013

That's great information, I've got 100 sheets of E64T in the freezer so expect to be doing a lot more E6 process than C41 in 8x10.

I'm still not quite sure how I recover the chemicals for re-use, presumably it's just about having a container under the drain at the right times?

polyglot · Sep 28, 2013

I've not used an ATL so I don't know. With my CPP2 and lift though, yes you just put a bottle under the drain at the appropriate time.

erikg · Sep 28, 2013

You can recover chemistry easily, it helps to have the unit on a counter or a table with a hole in it to allow the drain hose to pass through. In any case it has to drain into some waste container but if you wish to recover a specific bath you capture it as it pumps out after each stage. I ran one of these for a few years and you get to know the sounds pretty well. I would recycle fixer in the b&w process regularly. It's a nice unit, never had any trouble with it.

CatLABS · Sep 28, 2013

BennehBoy said:
I'm still not quite sure how I recover the chemicals for re-use, presumably it's just about having a container under the drain at the right times?

Yes, you will have to stand by the machine to recover the materials separately, for a 6 bath E-6 that can be a bit tyring (and defeating the idea of an automatic process to some extent...), Thus buying bulk chemistry, and using as one shot, is a much better solution, especially if you will be doing alot...

CatLABS · Sep 28, 2013

BennehBoy said:
The processor is coming with 2x 2553 tanks, presumably I can do 1 sheet in these also.

Godzilla in this post looks intersting -> (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

We are working on something - stay tuned.

BennehBoy said:
Oops! I thought it was the 2840 that wouldn't fit, there are some misleading posts out there. No biggie I got the 2830's cheap.

Yes that's true, which is why its important to watch movies like midnight run, and remember the important quotes:
"Always check the facts marvin, those were car keys"

As you are getting some 2550 with the machine, and the 2830 were cheap you should be good to go.

CatLABS · Sep 28, 2013

polyglot said:
Prewash must be at process-temp; the main purpose of it is to bring the tank to temp.

Pre warm in this case, not pre wash, will warm up tank (and film) to process temp.

BennehBoy · Sep 28, 2013

CatLABS said:
Yes, you will have to stand by the machine to recover the materials separately, for a 6 bath E-6 that can be a bit tyring (and defeating the idea of an automatic process to some extent...), Thus buying bulk chemistry, and using as one shot, is a much better solution, especially if you will be doing alot...

This is probably going to be my next quest once I've got the hang of the machine, I'm not having much look in finding bulk chemistry here in the UK, almost everywhere still in the game is just hawking the 1L or 5L kits.

The main use of the atl will be for c41 120, probably a couple hundred rolls per year (or more), so buying bulk is rather appealing.

CatLABS said:
We are working on something - stay tuned.

I'm _very_ interested.

BennehBoy · Sep 28, 2013

erikg said:
You can recover chemistry easily, it helps to have the unit on a counter or a table with a hole in it to allow the drain hose to pass through. In any case it has to drain into some waste container but if you wish to recover a specific bath you capture it as it pumps out after each stage. I ran one of these for a few years and you get to know the sounds pretty well. I would recycle fixer in the b&w process regularly. It's a nice unit, never had any trouble with it.

I'm converting my garden shed into a darkroom, insulating it etc, buying a new smaller shed for the kids bikes.

So, the man cave will be fully equipped

Thanks for the info.

CatLABS · Sep 28, 2013

BennehBoy said:
This is probably going to be my next quest once I've got the hang of the machine, I'm not having much look in finding bulk chemistry here in the UK, almost everywhere still in the game is just hawking the 1L or 5L kits.

The main use of the atl will be for c41 120, probably a couple hundred rolls per year (or more), so buying bulk is rather appealing.

In the UK you have tenetal 5L 2 bath c-41, and 3 bath E-6, those are some of the best and easiest to use materials out there, and in most cases can be used as one shot for safety's sake, without sacrificing capacity of the kit (easy to save just the blix and re use, though its harder to find just the developer).

We sell a 5L and 10 L c-41 3 bath kit, but the shipping cost overseas is prohibitive. Tenetal is your best bet.

BennehBoy · Oct 15, 2013

Well, the beast has arrived!

Lots of extras included, submergible heater, external water pump, 2x15L float top tanks, 3 drums.

Did 3 full wash cycles last night and everything appeared to work OK.

Dead Link Removed

There's some white residue in chemical bottle 2 that the clean hasn't cleared up, any recommendations for an agent to help it?

Chemicals & Durst UT100 arrive tomorrow

CatLABS · Oct 15, 2013

Just leave it alone, its most likely old fixer, you can clean it all you want and it will just come back again with use.

BennehBoy · Oct 16, 2013

CatLABS said:
Just leave it alone, its most likely old fixer, you can clean it all you want and it will just come back again with use.

I'll be using C41 Digibase which is a 3 bath process, won't this old fixer residue mess with the bleach bath?

BennehBoy · Oct 16, 2013

Here's a poor photo of the residue:

My new to me UT100

And running an E6 process with just water to test the water jacket heater (also using external pump):

BennehBoy · Oct 17, 2013

So, not wishing to put potassium permanganate through my machine I decided it was simplest to just swap the number 2 and 6 bottles over. I'm highly unlikely to use a 6 bath process for quite some time so this seemed like the simplest option.

Here are the screws that need removing to allow access to the pipework and bottles, they're ringed in green:

Next the drain cock handle needs to come off, it just lifted out on mine:

Here's what the exposed pipework and bottles look like:

The removed bottles - I disconnected the smaller reclamation system tubes, and pulled the entire large feed pipes including gromets out of the bottles - the gromets were pretty 'stuck on' and I didn't want to tear them or risk breaking anything through brute force:

Lid removed, it's just held on by a small screw on the collar - you can see how gunked up the bottle is:

The dirty lid and collar:

And after a scrub:

Here's a gromet after removing with the help of some liquid soap, this was then reinserted in the bottle top prior to inserting the chemical feed tube:

All back together:

CatLABS · Oct 17, 2013

Good work! the residual material would have been eventually washed out by the bleach (and replaced with other deposits...) but this is an easy fix to this issue, nicely done!

New to ATL1500, 8x10 C41 & E6 questions

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