New Tetenal products - who makes them? Tetenal? Ilford? Others?

[Pat Erson]

The subject of the topic is pretty much in the title : if you look at a 5l. drum of Tetenal Superfix and a 5l. drum of Rapid Fixer they look very much the same...
My retailer tells me Ilford makes chems (and also papers) for Tetenal. I'd be inclined to think Tetenal makes Ilford's chems.
Who's right?

 

[Lowell Huff]

You are correct.

 

[John Shriver]

My understanding is that Tetenal started making Ilford's chemicals after the receivership event at Ilford. Outsourcing!

 

[Martin Aislabie]

I understand that there are only about 4 paper coating plants in the world that are currently functioning :-

Kodak has one in Rochester
Ilford has its Mobberley coating line
Fuji has one in Japan
Efke has a coating plant in Croatia (?)

I am not sure if the Agfa/Adox plant is back up and running yet

However, there is a world of difference between having your products coated for you by a third party and repackaging the same product under various brand labels.

The same is also true of Chemistry, it makes good commercial sense to concentrate Chemical Manufacture into a few viable plants and use standardised bottles and packaging – but very importantly – the contents remain unique to each brand.

Sadly we are now a niche market – our volumes don’t support the wide manufacturing base that it once did and it is these sorts of strategic alliances between the manufacturers that allow us to still enjoy the wide range of products that are still available

Let’s hope our currently diverse material range stays viable for the manufacturers and allows then to deliver a similar diverse product range for many years to come

Martin

 

[Aurelien]

I understand that there are only about 4 paper coating plants in the world that are currently functioning :-

Kodak has one in Rochester
Ilford has its Mobberley coating line
Fuji has one in Japan
Efke has a coating plant in Croatia (?)

I am not sure if the Agfa/Adox plant is back up and running yet

However, there is a world of difference between having your products coated for you by a third party and repackaging the same product under various brand labels.

The same is also true of Chemistry, it makes good commercial sense to concentrate Chemical Manufacture into a few viable plants and use standardised bottles and packaging – but very importantly – the contents remain unique to each brand.

Sadly we are now a niche market – our volumes don’t support the wide manufacturing base that it once did and it is these sorts of strategic alliances between the manufacturers that allow us to still enjoy the wide range of products that are still available

Let’s hope our currently diverse material range stays viable for the manufacturers and allows then to deliver a similar diverse product range for many years to come

Martin

Martin, You are forgetting the Foma Plant, in Hradek Kralove (CZ).

Concerning chemicals, I read a post or an article that was stating the Ilford chemicals were now made by tetenal. But is that true for all? Some are labelled Made in USA (Champion), made in Spain...
Well, Maybe Simon will inform us as usual

The chemical plants are more abundant than the coating plant. It is easier to mix chemicals than to coat an emulsion.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

I understand that there are only about 4 paper coating plants in the world that are currently functioning :-

Kodak has one in Rochester
Ilford has its Mobberley coating line
Fuji has one in Japan
Efke has a coating plant in Croatia (?)

I am not sure if the Agfa/Adox plant is back up and running yet

Kodak only coats color paper, and I think it is done in Colorado.
Foma does its own paper coating
Slavich in Russia coats b/w paper and some film products
Agfa/Gevaert in Belgium coats RC paper, color & b/w for its aerial markets.

 

[Aurelien]

Kodak only coats color paper, and I think it is done in Colorado.
Foma does its own paper coating
Slavich in Russia coats b/w paper and some film products
Agfa/Gevaert in Belgium coats RC paper, color & b/w for its aerial markets.

You are right.
Moreover, Gevaert coats also for MACO/ Rollei
and we forgot Filmotec: they coat their B/W cine films, and rollei pan 25, and rollei ortho 25.

 

[Matt5791]

Ilford outsources manufacture of all chemicals now, and since Admin. and I believe to more than one manufacturer.

Matt

 

[PHOTOTONE]

You are right.
Moreover, Gevaert coats also for MACO/ Rollei
and we forgot Filmotec: they coat their B/W cine films, and rollei pan 25, and rollei ortho 25.

Yes, and of course Agfa/Gevaert also coats film products,
for its aerial and industrial markets, and some of these are sold
by Maco/Rollei in consumer formats.

Ferrania may also still coat some film products.
Kodak coats film products...all types.

Who makes the Oriental Seagull papers?

 

[Aurelien]

Who makes the Oriental Seagull papers?

Mystery...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

My recent boxes of Kodak Supra Endura have 'Made in England' printed on the box; and a couple of old boxes of Fuji Crystal Archive have 'made in the Netherlands' on the box.

Tom.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

My recent boxes of Kodak Supra Endura have 'Made in England' printed on the box; and a couple of old boxes of Fuji Crystal Archive have 'made in the Netherlands' on the box.

Tom.

Correct..the Kodak plant in England still coats RA-4 color paper for the European market..this makes Kodak the only paper coating company with more than 1 facility. I think the Fuji plant in the Netherlands is closed, but I am not sure.
Fuji still coats in Japan for the world market.

 

[Pat Erson]

So if I understand things correctly :
- Ilford chems are made by Tetenal
- Tetenal papers are made by Ilford

 

[AgX]

I think the Fuji plant in the Netherlands is closed, but I am not sure.
Fuji still coats in Japan for the world market.

The dutch Fuji plant is not closed, it is still coating.

But in the view of the current re-structuring of Fuji...

 

[Pat Erson]

"the contents remain unique to each brand."
Now that's interesting. Ilford fixer may be 40% more expensive than Tetenal, you might not get the same product in the end...
I'll stick to Ilford in the future : 10 Euros doesn't make a difference when 64x5=320 films are at stake... (bloody retailer)

 

[Anon Ymous]

So if I understand things correctly :
- Ilford chems are made by Tetenal
- Tetenal papers are made by Ilford

Tetenal used to sell some rebranded Ilford paper, among others IIRC. Some of that stuff can still be found, but I don't think Ilford sells multigrade to any other. Same thing with films. Their films are no longer sold under any other label.

 

[Aurelien]

tetenal paperS are rebranded foma papers.

 

[ath]

Tetenal Vario (RC) is Kentmere VC Select. The datasheets are identical.
In the past the Tetenal papers have been Agfa and Ilford.

 

[wogster]

Tetenal used to sell some rebranded Ilford paper, among others IIRC. Some of that stuff can still be found, but I don't think Ilford sells multigrade to any other. Same thing with films. Their films are no longer sold under any other label.

Say you want 5,000,000 sheets of 8x10 photographic paper, you have an emulsion recipe that was obtained from your great Uncle who used to have a photo shop that hand coated their own paper, in the 1950's. You don't go and build a $50 million coating plant, you go to someone who already has one, that is only partly being used, they brew up your emulsion recipe, coat some master rolls for you, they may cut and package it for you, all for a fee.

Now if you have an underused chemical plant, but no coating facility, and they have an underused coating facility, but no chemical plant, then it's not hard to see how you can assist one another to mutual benefit.

 

[Matt5791]

My recent boxes of Kodak Supra Endura have 'Made in England' printed on the box; and a couple of old boxes of Fuji Crystal Archive have 'made in the Netherlands' on the box.

Tom.

It all comes from their Harrow plant, which they are in the process of redeveloping........the wasted space, not the whole site.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=HA...n&loc=GB:51.59325:-0.34497:16|HA1 4TY|HA1 4TY

When I read the article about redeveloping my heart missed a beat as I immediately assumed this meant they were getting out. Actually it is, I think, positive news.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Paul, IIRC Harman does coat for others, but they won't sell their papers under another label. ADOX Fine Print Variotone is coated by Harman, but this product has nothing to do with any Ilford product. It surely doesn't make sense to build a $50M coating plant, just because you want to produce some paper. OTOH, Harman pays Tetenal (and whoever else) to produce their chemicals. There can be mutual benefit just by that.

 

[wogster]

Paul, IIRC Harman does coat for others, but they won't sell their papers under another label. ADOX Fine Print Variotone is coated by Harman, but this product has nothing to do with any Ilford product. It surely doesn't make sense to build a $50M coating plant, just because you want to produce some paper. OTOH, Harman pays Tetenal (and whoever else) to produce their chemicals. There can be mutual benefit just by that.

Which makes sense, there are some unique properties to some of the papers. If you can buy an Ilford paper for half the cost with a different name on it, why would you buy the Ilford paper? However if someone else wants you to make their paper using the same machinery, but maybe a different formula, there is nothing wrong with that, and good for Harmon to keep their plant operating at times they don't have product to make for themselves, rather then shuttering it and laying off all the staff.

As for chemicals, chemical plants are notoriously difficult to set up, and keep operating, environmental regulations change on almost a daily basis, you have inspections, and storage requirements, so if your volumes are not very high, then it can get too expensive to operate the plant. Chemicals often have special shipping regulations once they are manufactured, and import/export regulations on chemicals have only become much stricter in the last few years. So contracting with someone in Europe, someone else in North America and someone else in Asia makes sense.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

The subject of the topic is pretty much in the title : if you look at a 5l. drum of Tetenal Superfix and a 5l. drum of Rapid Fixer they look very much the same...
My retailer tells me Ilford makes chems (and also papers) for Tetenal. I'd be inclined to think Tetenal makes Ilford's chems.
Who's right?

Tetenal make their own photo-chemistry. AFAIK, Ilford chemistry is made by under license by Champion.

 

[Matt5791]

Tetenal make their own photo-chemistry. AFAIK, Ilford chemistry is made by under license by Champion.

Yes - I know Simon said Champion were very helpful when Ilford went into Admin.

However, some Ilford chemicals say Made in USA......eg. Harman Warmtone

Some say Made in Spain - Ilford Multigrade Dev.
Some say Made in Germany - Ilfostop

Matt

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

Yes - I know Simon said Champion were very helpful when Ilford went into Admin.

However, some Ilford chemicals say Made in USA......eg. Harman Warmtone

Some say Made in Spain - Ilford Multigrade Dev.
Some say Made in Germany - Ilfostop
Matt

Champion are multinational, so no surprises there.