New Study of Pyro Staining Developers

sanking · Jun 30, 2006

Jordan said:
This sounds like a very interesting project. At the risk of being flamed out of this board, do you plan to investigate the suitability of the resulting negatives for scanning? Some have claimed that staining developers produce negs that are easier or smoother-scanning than non-staining developers.

This is definitely something that interests me and that I hope to include in the study.

As for being flamed, there is a hybrid forum where this kind of discussion is pemitted.

Sandy

Jordan · Jun 30, 2006

sanking said:
This is definitely something that interests me and that I hope to include in the study.

As for being flamed, there is a hybrid forum where this kind of discussion is pemitted.

I've started a thread to discuss scanning stained negatives in the Gray Area forum: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

craigclu · Nov 30, 2006

Has there been any progress on the study? I've had some work distractions keeping me from the projects that I had intended to embark on related to sorting some staining developers and am about to get back to it. I recalled this topic from last summer and searched out this thread again....

sanking · Nov 30, 2006

craigclu said:
Has there been any progress on the study? I've had some work distractions keeping me from the projects that I had intended to embark on related to sorting some staining developers and am about to get back to it. I recalled this topic from last summer and searched out this thread again....

Yes, there has been some progress but I have had to put the work on hold for a few months to catch up on other projects. It will probably be late winter or early spring before I will be able to get back to it.

Sandy King

noseoil · Dec 1, 2006

Sandy, many thanks for your willingness to embark on these photographic journeys. I still marvel at your intellectual clarity and ability to simplify complex photographic issues. Your continuing work allows the layman to understand properties which can become too involved and require test equipment which is prohibitive in cost and time.

Very much looking forward to the comments on pyro developers (especially those insights by jdef) in a round table setting. Should be very interesting indeed. Thanks, tim

P.S. I hereby nominate Sandy for his lifetime work as the "Potentate of Pyro"

Any seconds? I think Sandy may be too modest to accept this title, but it seems to be an apt description of his dedication and knowledge.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 1, 2006

Pyro Potentate with Plenipotentiary Powers.

Steve Duprey · Dec 1, 2006

I both second the nomination, and endorse the revised title.

Seriously, Sandy has done a great job in expanding the knowledge base on staining developers, and his sharing of information and experience is of benefit to us all.

I for one am really enjoying the experience of working with a unique (some would say "obsolete") developer for "old-fashioned" b&w negatives, using an "antique" wooden camera with "obsolete" optics. Of course, any man who also chases little fish with a rod made of a rare asian grass, and tiny lures of fur and feather...and then lets them go...may not be the best judge of such things.

Your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Steve Duprey

SAShruby · Dec 1, 2006

Sandy if you pull this off or not, IMHO I'd say it would have significant impact on your credibility and expertise or otherwise in the future. Just to let you aware what you're undertaking. Good luck. I'm gonna support you on this, but I know from past, that you will meet appropriate resistance on this as well.

You know what I mean.
Peter.

mikebarger · Dec 1, 2006

"You know what I mean.
Peter."

I love code. _ .. ...._

sanking · Dec 1, 2006

mikebarger said:
"You know what I mean.
Peter."

I love code. _ .. ...._

What is the code?

Sandy King

mikebarger · Dec 1, 2006

I don't know, I'm not that smart.

But that what's interesting about codes is trying to figure out what is really being said. It's kind like working out crossword puzzles.

Mike

Curt · Dec 1, 2006

I just printed a negative developed in Pyrocat HD shot in Paris and the print is exceptional. I was very happy. The only question I have about a negative that has been stain developed is can it be enhanced with selenium toner as AA did and I have done with non staining developers.

Curt

gainer · Dec 1, 2006

The silver part is susceptible to selenium toning. Whether it has any deleterious effect on the stain part, I don't know.
The stain part is susceptible to intensification by bleaching and redeveloping the silver part in a staining developer. As this process may also have an effect on the tanning of the gelatine, it might cause cracking if repeated too many times. This process saves the silver part while it adds to the pre-existing stain.
If you are tempted to try both processes on the same negative, I would think the bleach-redevelopment should be done first. The selenium toning is likely to protect against bleaching.

gainer · Dec 1, 2006

SAShruby said:
Sandy if you pull this off or not, IMHO I'd say it would have significant impact on your credibility and expertise or otherwise in the future. Just to let you aware what you're undertaking. Good luck. I'm gonna support you on this, but I know from past, that you will meet appropriate resistance on this as well.

You know what I mean.
Peter.

When, pray tell, was Sandy's credibility or expertise questioned by his peers?
From all I can tell, he has shared his knowledge freely and accurately, both of successes and of failures.

sanking · Dec 1, 2006

gainer said:
When, pray tell, was Sandy's credibility or expertise questioned by his peers?
From all I can tell, he has shared his knowledge freely and accurately, both of successes and of failures.

Pat,

I am a Gemini bi-polar, so my peer is the other, and we question each other often.

Sandy

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 1, 2006

"From all I can tell, he has shared his knowledge freely and accurately, both of successes and of failures."

Quite true, Pat - but from time to time, a Troll does come by...

sanking · Dec 2, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
"From all I can tell, he has shared his knowledge freely and accurately, both of successes and of failures."

Quite true, Pat - but from time to time, a Troll does come by...

Tom,

That could have been Pollux. Or was it Castor? Or maybe Luc sans culture?

Sandy

gainer · Dec 2, 2006

sanking said:
Pat,

I am a Gemini bi-polar, so my peer is the other, and we question each other often.

Sandy

I guess that makes at least two of us who admit it. I'm not sure about the Gemini part, but only because I never paid much attention to astrology. Being born in July may have something to do with it. I stayed in the womb an extra month just to make sure everything was ready to go. I'm 79 years old, which may be why I'm no longer quite so shy. If I live another ten years, I should have my house paid for.

gainer · Dec 3, 2006

I just found out that makes me an old Crab. Sorry about that.

SAShruby · Dec 3, 2006

gainer said:
When, pray tell, was Sandy's credibility or expertise questioned by his peers?
From all I can tell, he has shared his knowledge freely and accurately, both of successes and of failures.

You see, I do not pick sides on this. I'm looking for a future reference. We're talking here about handbook of developers and their effect on negative and print for various development and print processes. It was never published before. Not in a complex document or book. I think Sandy's proposal undertake these testing is an excellent idea. The conclusion based on these comparisons would be crucial to credibility of the information how these findings would be published.

Personally, I would be very interested to see some book at the end as a general guideline for developers. As I said, Sandy, who founded Pyrocat-HD and many of us, including me, are using, has its oposition who whenever was possible, questioned Sandy's HD and some test results as well. There is a certain bias involved, I'm not saying Sandy is biased, but it can be perceived as there would be. Especially, if HD would be concluded as favorite with other developers. This is Sandy's achilles all the time, HD is good, very good, unfortunately not everybody agrees. I would suggest to gather opinions from other very qualified photographers, and choosing very carefuly methods of testing and method of comparison.

Again Sandy, good luck with your testing I would be very interested in your results.

p.s. With respect to codes, .---- ---., if you type PMK vs. Pyrocat, either here or lf.info you would get the idea what I'm talking about.

fhovie · Dec 3, 2006

mikebarger said:
"You know what I mean.
Peter."

I love code. _ .. ...._

_ T .. I ...._ 4

Coata Rica??

fhovie · Dec 3, 2006

If this study ends with ... jee D-76 is really the best after all - I am going to scream. I use p'cat-p for no particular reason other than I believe it gives me what I am looking for. My scanner hates negatives from any source and I will be very curious to see what becomes of all this.

Oh - yes ... Thanks Sandy for providing us with royalty free recipes that outperform anything else and cost pennies to make. You have changed the landscape of chemistry for fine art photographers world wide and you will likely be appreceated for a century for it. I appreciate it.

mikebarger · Dec 3, 2006

Close, but not quite there Frank.

Mike

New Study of Pyro Staining Developers

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