New Slide FIlm

thuggins · Sep 18, 2016

I just got back from vacation in the UK and in addition to working thru my stores of Ektachrome and Provia 400, I tried some of the new Lomography XPro film. A nice little film, some thoughts below:

- This is NOT "just Provia", or any Fuji film for that matter. Whoever is making it, it is its own puppy. I suspect it is the same as the Rollei PRO.

- At ASA 200 it really hits a sweet spot for speed. I shot a number of building interiors at 200 and they came out beautifully. It will be worth trying to push to 800 for extreme low light situations.

- The color palette is unique; this doesn't look like Ektachrome or Fuji. It is somewhat warm, with browns having a pleasing gold cast and grass rendered a bright yellow-green. It reminds me a bit of Kodachrome. My only gripe is that blues come out with a distinct greenish tint. It's not too bad on water, but the blue sky is definitely off and any overcast washes out.

- The rolls are short. With both Kodak and Fuji (regardless of the film type) I typically get 38 full exposures, even 39 in an XA or Stylus. With this film you get exactly 36 full frames. So even though it costs less, this needs to be factored in.

- Dwayne's did not mount the slides, and when I asked about this they claimed the film had a polyester base and it wouldn't cut cleanly, so they won't mount this film. I snipped off some ends with scissors and it seemed to cut like any other film. These were then run thru my cheap film cutter, which has butchered its share of film, and they cut as cleanly as any other film. Does anyone have any insight? (BTW, I had some other issues with Dwayne's this time. Not ready to give up on them yet, but I was very disappointed in their quality.)

It's good to have another film in the E6 selection and I'll definitely give it another try. I am big on blue skies though, so that is a bit of a turn off.

twelvetone12 · Sep 18, 2016

Isn't this just some old Agfa stuff? AFAIK Wittnerchrome 200 is basically the same but fresh, and without color casts.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 18, 2016

It is rebranded Agfa :Aviphot 200, aka again, Rollei CR 200, and goodness knows how many other iterations floating around.
After my first roll I have observed the film to be a bit too "retro" for my tastes. Fuji 400X is about to be loaded in lieu.

AgX · Sep 18, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
It is rebranded Agfa :Aviphot 200, aka again, Rollei CR 200, and goodness knows how many other iterations floating around.
After my first roll I have observed the film to be a bit too "retro" for my tastes.

The emulsion is a recipe from the late 90s. Taken over from their consumer portfolio.

MultiFormat Shooter · Sep 19, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
It is rebranded Agfa Aviphot 200, aka again, Rollei CR 200, and goodness knows how many other iterations floating around.

AgX said:
The emulsion is a recipe from the late 90s. Taken over from their consumer portfolio.

Is this film still made or is all of the re-branded stuff, including the WittnerChrome 200, "New Old Stock" that is being used-up?

AgX · Sep 19, 2016

Production at Agfa has ended so it is from now on "new old stock".
(But it is not stock from the 90s, if you imply that...)

thuggins · Sep 20, 2016

Some interesting thoughts there. I was able to find some samples of Wittner Chrome posted on the web and there was a similar look, so this could be the same stuff. But it is very hard to tell from a few short videos posted on-line. If it is a discontinued film it is odd that Lomography would be marketing it under their own name, but anything is possible.

I just got some negative archival sheets and cut and sleeved these rolls. This film was no more difficult to cut than anything else I've worked with, so it appears that Dwayne's is blowing smoke on that excuse. They did screw up several frames on other rolls, either by not centering the frame in the mount fully or just butchering the frame entirely (they did send me a replacement roll of Provia to make up for that). So it appears that their equipment just needs to be maintained and they are holding off on that.

Henning Serger · Sep 20, 2016

MultiFormat Shooter said:
Is this film still made or is all of the re-branded stuff, including the WittnerChrome 200, "New Old Stock" that is being used-up?

All this film, the whole production run, was coated just before the German Agfa plant in Leverkusen closed in 2005. This production was ordered by Agfa, Belgium, for their aerial photography customers. So since 2005 both the aerial market, and the consumer market (on which this Aviphot Chrome 200 film has been offered as Rollei CR 200, Lomo XPro 200 and Wittnerchrome 200D) have been supplied with this stock from the Agfa warehouse in Belgium.
This stock will be depleted in the mid-term future. And there will be no new production.

For an ISO 200/24° reversal film I can highly recommend Provia 100F pushed 1 stop. It gives excellent results. Much much better than the Aviphot Chrome.

Best regards,
Henning

flavio81 · Sep 20, 2016

Henning Serger said:
All this film, the whole production run, was coated just before the German Agfa plant in Leverkusen closed in 2005. This production was ordered by Agfa, Belgium, for their aerial photography customers. So since 2005 both the aerial market, and the consumer market (on which this Aviphot Chrome 200 film has been offered as Rollei CR 200, Lomo XPro 200 and Wittnerchrome 200D) have been supplied with this stock from the Agfa warehouse in Belgium.
This stock will be depleted in the mid-term future. And there will be no new production.

For an ISO 200/24° reversal film I can highly recommend Provia 100F pushed 1 stop. It gives excellent results. Much much better than the Aviphot Chrome.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning,

You always deliver the interesting information (in bold), thanks!!

As for the film, I used it in the Lomo incarnation, 120 format. I liked the colors but found the resolution not so good and the grain big. Perhaps it would be better if I had pushed it to ISO 800.

Henning Serger · Sep 20, 2016

flavio81 said:
Henning,

You always deliver the interesting information (in bold), thanks!!

As for the film, I used it in the Lomo incarnation, 120 format. I liked the colors but found the resolution not so good and the grain big. Perhaps it would be better if I had pushed it to ISO 800.

You are welcome.

And you are right: The resolution of the film is not good, and the grain is quite coarse.
Maybe you know that beside my normal job I am running a small, independent optical test lab, in which I am testing films, lenses, developers, papers and sensors.
Of course I've tested all the reversal films we have (had) on the market, including Provia 100F, Elitechrome 200, Rollei CR 200 and Provia 400X.
Test results in resolution (object contrast 1:4; system resolution with Zeiss ZF 2/50 at f5,6):
1. Provia 100F: 125 - 140 Lp/mm (at Push 1 with ISO 200/24° the resolution is almost the same)
2. Provia 400X: 105 - 115 Lp/mm
3. Elitechrome 200: 100 - 115 Lp/mm
4. Rollei CR 200: 65 - 80 Lp/mm.
And concerning fineness of grain you get the same ranking as above: Provia 100F being by far the finest grain film, followed by Provia 400X, then Elitechrome 200 and the by far coarsest grain reversal film is the Aviphot Chrome / Rollei CR 200.

Best regards,
Henning

flavio81 · Sep 20, 2016

Henning Serger said:
Maybe you know that beside my normal job I am running a small, independent optical test lab, in which I am testing films, lenses, developers, papers and sensors.

I didn't know. Sounds like my dream job! Although another of my dream jobs would be Quality Control and Product Testing at Durex...

The table is interesting, does your test lab have test results published on the web?

Many thanks,
Flavio.

Henning Serger · Sep 20, 2016

flavio81 said:
I didn't know. Sounds like my dream job! Although another of my dream jobs would be Quality Control and Product Testing at Durex...

The table is interesting, does your test lab have test results published on the web?

Many thanks,
Flavio.

Flavio, in the past I've often published my test results here in several threads, and also in some German forums like aphog.de and in facebook film photographer groups.

In the current edition (IV.2016) of the high-quality film photography only print-magazine "PhotoKlassik" I've published a detailed article about the test results with a list of almost all current colour reversal, colour negative and BW negative films:
https://www.photoklassik.de/aktuelles/
And based on this detailed article in the current edition of "PhotoKlassik" I am currently working on a detailed report on that whole topic 'detail rendition of films' in English for https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/.
A part of it (reversal films, colour and BW) is already published for quite some time on aphog.de (together with results from Zeiss and two other photographer colleagues):
http://www.aphog.de/filmtest/

Best regards,
Henning

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 20, 2016

Henning Serger said:
And concerning fineness of grain you get the same ranking as above: Provia 100F being by far the finest grain film, followed by Provia 400X, then Elitechrome 200 and the by far coarsest grain reversal film is the Aviphot Chrome / Rollei CR 200.

I have reflected on this observation about coarse grain and considered now that in future I will assign CR 200 to pinhole work, pushed say 2 stops to really bring up grain to the point of what one achieves using Delta P3200 at EI 12,500. As CR 200 stands though its retro palette (with a slight likeness to Fuji's horrid Velvia 100F) does not sit well with me, coming as I do from the august rendering of Provia 100F. Anyways, the CR 200 films were a gratis exchange for botched Kodak TMax 100 in 120 format that were found to be part of a faulty batch. So I can't complain about the freebie and will continue my experiments.

thuggins · Sep 21, 2016

Henning Serger said:
For an ISO 200/24° reversal film I can highly recommend Provia 100F pushed 1 stop. It gives excellent results. Much much better than the Aviphot Chrome.
Henning

On this trip I pushed a roll of Provia 100 to 400 and was very impressed by the results. I wasn't expecting to be inside a cathedral and only had the 100 with me, but it is a least as good when pushed as the 400 is at its rated speed. Of course, Provia 400 can be pushed to 1600 which opens up a whole new range of possibilities.

One thing did seem to be consistent in both cases. Although both the "100 to 400" and "400 to 1600" looked great in low light, they both had issues in full sun light. These are darker and less contrasty, and the colors are off. At first I thought the shutter speeds may be off on the high end (I don't often have a need for 1/1000 or 1/2000 sec). But the pushed 100 showed the same look and I know the 1/500 shutter speed is dead on.

DREW WILEY · Sep 21, 2016

If the colors are off, don't blame the film. When color neg film is underexposed, which is always the case if you need to "push" it, the lower part of
the respective dye curves tend to overlap and can't properly resolve their respective wavelength. Color neg behaves just the opposite of chrome slide
films. If you need to err, you do so slightly on the side of overexposure, not underexposure. In other words, if you do push em, don't expect good color response. Metering and correct color temp balancing are separate but equally important aspects.

DREW WILEY · Sep 21, 2016

... ooops, my bad. I was subconsciously confusing Provia with Portra. Not the first time I've made that mistake. Sorry.

Henning Serger · Sep 21, 2016

Hello Tim,

thuggins said:
On this trip I pushed a roll of Provia 100 to 400 and was very impressed by the results.

Yes, Provia 100F can be pushed even two stops with very good results. Pulling one stop is also possible.

thuggins said:
One thing did seem to be consistent in both cases. Although both the "100 to 400" and "400 to 1600" looked great in low light, they both had issues in full sun light. These are darker and less contrasty, and the colors are off.

Well in full sunlight pushing normally is not needed. I just did it some time ago just for testing purposes and curiosity, and had no problems.

Best regards,
Henning

mshchem · Sep 25, 2016

If we don't buy Fujichrome it will be gone. Leave the Agfa in the freezer and buy some Fuji
Best Regards Mike

mehguy · Sep 26, 2016

Henning Serger said:
All this film, the whole production run, was coated just before the German Agfa plant in Leverkusen closed in 2005. This production was ordered by Agfa, Belgium, for their aerial photography customers. So since 2005 both the aerial market, and the consumer market (on which this Aviphot Chrome 200 film has been offered as Rollei CR 200, Lomo XPro 200 and Wittnerchrome 200D) have been supplied with this stock from the Agfa warehouse in Belgium.
This stock will be depleted in the mid-term future. And there will be no new production.

For an ISO 200/24° reversal film I can highly recommend Provia 100F pushed 1 stop. It gives excellent results. Much much better than the Aviphot Chrome.

Best regards,
Henning

Hm, I thought AGFA was still producing aerial film. That sounds hard to believe. Are you saying that the batch they made in 2005 lasted this long? So are you saying that stuff like the Rollei RETRO films will no longer be around? They are agfa aerial film after all.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 27, 2016

mehguy said:
Hm, I thought AGFA was still producing aerial film. That sounds hard to believe. Are you saying that the batch they made in 2005 lasted this long? So are you saying that stuff like the Rollei RETRO films will no longer be around? They are agfa aerial film after all.

It is interesting. I am also under the impression that Agfa is still producing aerial film.
But the bigger question is about this 2005 manufacture. Your post prompted me to have a look at the expiry dates on my just-refreshed stock of this film. All five rolls of CR 200 have an expiry of August 2018, so they have been manufactured much more recently than a decade ago. Or...film preserved for 11 years?? Hmmm.

Henning Serger · Sep 28, 2016

mehguy said:
Hm, I thought AGFA was still producing aerial film. That sounds hard to believe. Are you saying that the batch they made in 2005 lasted this long? So are you saying that stuff like the Rollei RETRO films will no longer be around? They are agfa aerial film after all.

Agfa in Belgium is still producing some BW aerial films, like the Aviphot Pan 20, 40, 80 and 200.

But the color chrome / reversal film has been made in the Leverkusen plant in Germany. In 2005, when it was clear that the sold/separated German part (AgfaPhoto Produktion) cannot come out of insolvency successfully and will be closed, Agfa Belgium ordered huge amounts of film (to be able to supply these films for many years), and all raw materials in the Agfa warehouse in Leverkusen were used to coat as much film as possible (one reason why Rollei Retro 100 = APX 100 lasted so long in the supply chains). In this year 2005 huge amounts of film were coated in the Leverkusen plant before it was closed.
The film stock which was coated for Agfa Belgium has been then stored in Mortsel in cold storage in their film warehouse.
The film is officially discontinued now because the stock is slowly depleting:
http://agfa.com/sp/global/en/intern...alphotography/color/recording_films/index.jsp

So yes, these 2005 batches lasted this long. It was a huge volume produced in 2005.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Sep 28, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
It is interesting. I am also under the impression that Agfa is still producing aerial film.

Yes, but only BW aerial film. See above post.

Poisson Du Jour said:
But the bigger question is about this 2005 manufacture. Your post prompted me to have a look at the expiry dates on my just-refreshed stock of this film. All five rolls of CR 200 have an expiry of August 2018, so they have been manufactured much more recently than a decade ago. Or...film preserved for 11 years?? Hmmm.

The guarantee dates are printed on the boxes when the film masterrolls / mother rolls / Jumbo rolls are taken from the cold storage for finishing / converting. That is usual practice at all film manufacturers.

Best regards,
Henning

New Slide FIlm

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