New shutter and lens for large format by Intrepid Camera, UK

Angarian · Sep 17, 2024

FYI:

Intrepid has announced a new project: They have developed a new shutter and a new lens for large format cameras:
The shutter will have Copal 0 size. Shutter speeds are up to 1/125s. Self-timer included. And shutter-open warning. Built-in 3.5mm jack for flash.

The lens:
f6.3 with 150mm focal length. Cooke Triplet optical design.

Both products will be launched via Kickstarter on September, 24th (Intrepid camera 10th birthday).
More details on instagram.com/intrepidcamera.
I have just seen the announcement there today, and as we have lots of LF photographers here on photrio, I thought the information may be interesting for you LF enthusiasts.

koraks · Sep 17, 2024

That looks pretty convincing. If they can do it in Copal 0, they can do larger ones as well. Which is great news for an item for which no currently manufactured replacement has existed for quite some time.

awty · Sep 17, 2024

Good for them.
Cant see much of a market for a 150mm lens when there are plenty on the secondhand market.
But the shutter looks interesting, especially if they could make them easily adaptable to other lenses.

Richard Man · Sep 17, 2024

It's pretty amusing for a group of professed film lovers that every time there is a new film, new camera, new things that can be used by film lovers, some people just have to say "why bother?"

cmacd123 · Sep 17, 2024

Certainly if anyone can make generic shutters, it would ease a lot of worries for folks who like Big Negatives, or View Camera adjustability

AnselMortensen · Sep 17, 2024

As a large format photographer, I'm glad to see this, I wish them success.
As a devoté of the Ned Ludd Institute of Technology, I don't do the InstaFaceXGramTweetBook thing, so I'll be following it here.

SMD · Sep 17, 2024

Richard Man said:
It's pretty amusing for a group of professed film lovers that every time there is a new film, new camera, new things that can be used by film lovers, some people just have to say "why bother?"

My going on this is: I want results, not playing. So I go with reliable material. For the sake of my time, I only have one life, and of my wallet. I am perfectly happy with tested products from Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, no need for new. Same with shutters and lenses.
If you want to nail something, do you use the steel hammer you have or break out in joy that somebody brough out a hammer made of jelly?

koraks · Sep 18, 2024

AnselMortensen said:
As a devoté of the Ned Ludd Institute of Technology

You may not like this shutter. It's computer-controlled.

SMD said:
So I go with reliable material.

Then I'd pick the electronic shutter that's accurate every time at every speed setting over the mechanical thing that I'll just have to pray still even works despite having long passed its pensionable age.

Mind you, all my LF shutters are mechanical ones of varying vintages. So far the more modern Copals are holding up magnificently - thank God (some of the older ones are like LF shutters often are - let's say temperamental). But one day, their time will come. And at that point I'd be happy to accept any alternative that actually *works* and can be bought off the shelf. And yes, I could try to find a kind octogenarian who will CLA each of my shutters for $200 a piece. Theoretically.

SMD · Sep 18, 2024

koraks said:
Then I'd pick the electronic shutter that's accurate every time at every speed setting over the mechanical thing that I'll just have to pray still even works despite having long passed its pensionable age.

That is true, but with this particular shutter the shortest time of 1/125s would be a dealbraker for me.

Angarian · Sep 18, 2024

halfaman said:
The most important thing to understand about crowdfunding is that you are not buying anything. You are funding a project that may or may not be succesful. Risk is inherent to any investment. About 5% of the credit given to EU private companies is not returned to the banks, why should crowdfunding be different?

Talking about Intrepid in particular, they have a long history of succesful projects, being the 8x10" film holder the only stain (some had light leaks if I recall correctly). So seems like a low risk bet to put your money in.

+1.

And not to forget: Intrepid is meanwhile the biggest large format camera manufacturer (based on sales volume of units). And they became that in only 10 years! They are producing several hundred LF cameras p.a.. No other LF camera producer has such high production numbers.
I think the risk here for Kickstarter backers is quite low.

{Moderator note: this diversion of the thread into a tangent about the desirability of the use of crowd funding by established firms, which has started to lead its own life. Accordingly, we have spilt off that discussion into its own place, since it's interesting enough to discuss. You can find that thread in the Ethics and Philosophy sub-forum - see here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...photographic-ad-ventures.209184/#post-2829448}

koraks · Sep 18, 2024

Angarian said:
They are producing several hundred LF cameras p.a..

Hm, so that's a pretty marginal business. Given an average retail price of maybe €500 across different models, 'a couple of hundred' units would translate in a few 100k annual turnover. Their website lists a 10-head team, which means they are either generating revenues with other business than camera sales, most of their staff is employed on a part-time basis (or simply doesn't get paid for much of the work they do, a.k.a. volunteering) or the sales estimate is way off. It's probably a combination of these factors, leaning heavily on the former two. I suspect that like many/most of the businesses in the analog photography domain, it's held together with pieces of string, goodwill and youthful optimism.

Hassasin · Sep 18, 2024

Angarian said:
+1.

And not to forget: Intrepid is meanwhile the biggest large format camera manufacturer (based on sales volume of units). And they became that in only 10 years! They are producing several hundred LF cameras p.a.. No other LF camera producer has such high production numbers.
I think the risk here for Kickstarter backers is quite low.

If they are they ought to remove public risk and fund it themselves

Angarian · Sep 18, 2024

koraks said:
Hm, so that's a pretty marginal business.

Sorry, I was not precise enough. I meant they are producing several hundred cameras of each type p.a.. So their total camera output is in the 4-digit range.
I definitely have to work on my bad English as well........

koraks · Sep 18, 2024

Angarian said:
Sorry, I was not precise enough. I meant they are producing several hundred cameras of each type p.a.. So their total camera output is in the 4-digit range.
I definitely have to work on my bad English as well........

I see. They sound like the next Tesla, or Apple.

Now, realistically speaking, I suspect the ACTUAL numbers or somewhere between my earlier misinterpretation and your present and very optimistic correction. And that my assessment of 'piece of string etc.' is in fact accurate.

Lachlan Young · Sep 19, 2024

koraks said:
If they can do it in Copal 0, they can do larger ones as well.

The official line seems to be that #1 is highly likely (I strongly suspect that the mechanism is #1 capable from the outset, it's just a matter of adapter rings/ casing), bigger will be demand dependent. Speed is 1/125 max (no worse than any press shutter) - with an aim to get it a bit faster, though an accurate 1/250 would essentially be better than almost any mechanical leaf shutter achieved... It also apparently has flash sync that finally moves to something more sensible than PC.

What will be interesting is whether some of the previous LF lens manufacturers jump back in, or if newer optical subcontractors appear - and the effect on the rather inflated prices of certain very desirable lenses (e.g. Planar/ Xenotar).

abruzzi · Sep 19, 2024

I never shoot 1/500 since it always optimistic even on brand new gear. (I came across a review of a Bronica SQ lens which has a electronically controlled Seiko #0 shutter. This was when new. All the speeds were very accurate except 1/500 which was a half stop slow.) I shoot 1/250 once in a rare while. I shoot 1/125 a LOT, so if they can keep their top speed accurate (and all the others), this is a huge win if affordable and reliable.

cirwin2010 · Sep 21, 2024

Are there any optical characteristics we can expect from this lens being that it is a triplet? I imagine it will be softer than your typical tessar being that it is a less optically complex lens.

Lachlan Young · Sep 24, 2024

cirwin2010 said:
Are there any optical characteristics we can expect from this lens being that it is a triplet? I imagine it will be softer than your typical tessar being that it is a less optically complex lens.

Probably not that different to the Rodenstock Geronars. By f11 and deeper you'd have a hard time differentiating one from a tessar. Wide open, somewhat smoother rendering. Cooke Triplet designs are classics for good reasons.

Angarian · Sep 26, 2024

Update, just FYI: The project is online now:

There is also some very interesting content about the history of the project, and "behind the scenes".

koraks · Sep 26, 2024

It looks quite nice, although I have to admit that I'm a little put off by the thought of having to carry a fairly large control box just for the shutter. I do understand it from an engineering viewpoint and "getting things done" mentality.

Angarian · Sep 26, 2024

koraks said:
It looks quite nice, although I have to admit that I'm a little put off by the thought of having to carry a fairly large control box just for the shutter. I do understand it from an engineering viewpoint and "getting things done" mentality.

As the control unit cable connection can be disconnected for transport I think that is not a very big problem. And the control unit has the size of an external handheld light meter.
Personally I see the 1/125s shortest shutter speed a bit more of a limitation: In landscape photography, if you have a bit wind, leaves can be blurred with only 1/125s. But on the other hand, I think having realized 1/125s in this "first attempt" for a completely new shutter, a construction from scratch, is a success. Maybe the successor can have 1/250s.

I think the package of camera, shutter and lens, is very attractively priced. Maybe some feel tempted by that to start LF.

koraks · Sep 26, 2024

Angarian said:
As the control unit cable connection can be disconnected for transport I think that is not a very big problem.

I'd still have to carry it, unless they will be distributed to all physical locations I may at some point visit to take a photograph.
One more item to forget to pack in my bag.
One more item to be damaged while in the bag (that display looks rather delicate for something that needs to function in the field), or lost as it slips out.
One more item to take up space and get in the way when I'm fumbling to pull out another film holder, snagging on the dark slide leaving me with a fogged sheet.
One more item that I need to remember to check whether it's charged after an extended period of not being used.

Compared to the alternative I'm putting up with now: a generic shutter release cable, that even if I forget it, I can replace with my index finger if I'm a little careful.

Again, it's not a huge deal, but I wouldn't call it convenient, or necessarily progress.

joe bosak · Nov 10, 2024

Great news, I'm tempted to have yet another go at LF...

The lcd seems the weakest link to me. But on the bright side at least it's not controlled by a phone app like some of those SX-70 adaptations.

locutus · Nov 10, 2024

Looks very similar conceptually to the Rollei electronic shutter system, but less horrifyingly expensive.

Hope they do a Copal1 or even 3 sized shutter, I'd love a electronically triggered shutter for use in my 5x4 macro setup.

New shutter and lens for large format by Intrepid Camera, UK

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